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The logic of your argument means that all animals in nature that kill either plants or animals to survive are being exploitative. This is not how I define exploitation at all, because that seems ridiculous to assert.
The definition of exploitation that actually makes sense to me, and the only way that positions the word as describing something morally bad or unacceptable, is exerting power-over (domination, coercion, etc) in order to profit or personally gain from the life of another in a way that doesn't allow that being to according to their true nature.
All prey species in the wild live very short lives relative to the lives they live if domesticated, even when raised for food in most circumstances. The vegan view that killing animals = exploitation is completely divorced from the reality of the natural world. What matters is if the animal is allowed to live according to its true nature, as nature intended. Not the length of time they are able to live. A deer or rabbit (or chicken or cow) growing old and dying of old age would never ever happen in nature. (Plus dying of diseases or starvation is a vastly worse way to go).
And if you believe that plants are as inherently valuable and intelligent as animals, then the same logic must be applied to them, which means that even vegans are exploiters (by your definition). If all humans are exploiting other living beings simply by eating anything, then the word itself becomes meaningless.
The logic of your argument means that all animals in nature that kill either plants or animals to survive are being exploitative. This is not how I define exploitation at all, because that seems ridiculous to assert.
The definition of exploitation that actually makes sense to me, and the only way that positions the word as describing something morally bad or unacceptable, is exerting power-over (domination, coercion, etc) in order to profit or personally gain from the life of another in a way that doesn't allow that being to according to their true nature.
All prey species in the wild live very short lives relative to the lives they live if domesticated, even when raised for food in most circumstances. The vegan view that killing animals = exploitation is completely divorced from the reality of the natural world. What matters is if the animal is allowed to live according to its true nature, as nature intended. Not the length of time they are able to live. A deer or rabbit (or chicken or cow) growing old and dying of old age would never ever happen in nature. (Plus dying of diseases or starvation is a vastly worse way to go).
And if you believe that plants are as inherently valuable and intelligent as animals, then the same logic must be applied to them, which means that even vegans are exploiters (by your definition). If all humans are exploiting other living beings simply by eating anything, then the word itself becomes meaningless.
>So are you implying in your other comment that slaves should not have rebelled?
Huh? Why are you responding to my response (about the Haitian revolution) to you... under an unrelated comment? Why can't you respond there itself?
As for your question, yes, slaves should absolutely have rebelled. Slaves have done so using both violence & nonviolence. What I'm telling you is about the method which worked more than the other. I can send you resources on this.
>That’s a very very strange and dangerous statement to be making.
I can very comfortably oppose violent rebellion without opposing the struggle itself (& supporting the oppressors). I oppose the tactics, not the goal of liberation. So no, I'm not making any dangerous statement. It's not my problem that most of the world assumes defense MUST be violent.
Collective self-defense ≠ violence.
Individual self-defense = can be violent, but doesn't have to (& shouldn't) involve killing.
>The history of leftism is also the history of violent revolt and rebellion.
Okay, and? Why should this affect my opposition to violence? The history of human society is also the history of living under hierarchies. Hierarchical thinking is the default mode of thought for most people.
Does this make opposition to all hierarchies - anarchism - useless? Why must the future be dependant on what existed in the past? Why can't we fight it and try to change it?
This is defeatism & mere acceptance of how the world is. Where does the revolutionary zeal of you so called anarchists go when violence is the subject of discussion? To the gutter.
>Nobody on earth has gained more rights by passively asking nicely for them
Read this comment of mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/10rz7s8/-/j7jyt6e
I explain why "being nice" & "passive" aren't actually useful to us pacifists as well.
.
.
>So are you implying in your other comment that slaves should not have rebelled?
Huh? Why are you responding to my response (about the Haitian revolution) to you... under an unrelated comment? Why can't you respond there itself?
As for your question, yes, slaves should absolutely have rebelled. Slaves have done so using both violence & nonviolence. What I'm telling you is about the method which worked more than the other. I can send you resources on this.
>That’s a very very strange and dangerous statement to be making.
I can very comfortably oppose violent rebellion without opposing the struggle itself (& supporting the oppressors). I oppose the tactics, not the goal of liberation. So no, I'm not making any dangerous statement. It's not my problem that most of the world assumes defense MUST be violent.
Collective self-defense ≠ violence.
Individual self-defense = can be violent, but doesn't have to (& shouldn't) involve killing.
>The history of leftism is also the history of violent revolt and rebellion.
Okay, and? Why should this affect my opposition to violence? The history of human society is also the history of living under hierarchies. Hierarchical thinking is the default mode of thought for most people.
Does this make opposition to all hierarchies - anarchism - useless? Why must the future be dependant on what existed in the past? Why can't we fight it and try to change it?
This is defeatism & mere acceptance of how the world is. Where does the revolutionary zeal of you so called anarchists go when violence is the subject of discussion? To the gutter.
>Nobody on earth has gained more rights by passively asking nicely for them
Read this comment of mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/10rz7s8/-/j7jyt6e
I explain why "being nice" & "passive" aren't actually useful to us pacifists as well.
Straw man argument. People can deny Covid's existence and not wish for people to die.
Anarchist meet?Let’s come together and meet as like minded anarchist and take over
Yeah fuck the system let’s start a war only way some gonna get done we can’t just sit and cry on reddit
the sane as always
goverment does stupit things and steal our money to get rich
JK Rowling's Anti-Transgender Stance And Hogwarts Legacy
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WHY HERE?
i thought this was my one space to never hear another thing about this terf, it isn’t even anarchy related, it’s a GAMESPOT ARTICLE
The logic of your argument means that all animals in nature that kill either plants or animals to survive are being exploitative. This is not how I define exploitation at all, because that seems ridiculous to assert.
The definition of exploitation that actually makes sense to me, and the only way that positions the word as describing something morally bad or unacceptable, is exerting power-over (domination, coercion, etc) in order to profit or personally gain from the life of another in a way that doesn't allow that being to according to their true nature.
All prey species in the wild live very short lives relative to the lives they live if domesticated, even when raised for food in most circumstances. The vegan view that killing animals = exploitation is completely divorced from the reality of the natural world. What matters is if the animal is allowed to live according to its true nature, as nature intended. Not the length of time they are able to live. A deer or rabbit (or chicken or cow) growing old and dying of old age would never ever happen in nature. (Plus dying of diseases or starvation is a vastly worse way to go).
And if you believe that plants are as inherently valuable and intelligent as animals, then the same logic must be applied to them, which means that even vegans are exploiters (by your definition). If all humans are exploiting other living beings simply by eating anything, then the word itself becomes meaningless.
The logic of your argument means that all animals in nature that kill either plants or animals to survive are being exploitative. This is not how I define exploitation at all, because that seems ridiculous to assert.
The definition of exploitation that actually makes sense to me, and the only way that positions the word as describing something morally bad or unacceptable, is exerting power-over (domination, coercion, etc) in order to profit or personally gain from the life of another in a way that doesn't allow that being to according to their true nature.
All prey species in the wild live very short lives relative to the lives they live if domesticated, even when raised for food in most circumstances. The vegan view that killing animals = exploitation is completely divorced from the reality of the natural world. What matters is if the animal is allowed to live according to its true nature, as nature intended. Not the length of time they are able to live. A deer or rabbit (or chicken or cow) growing old and dying of old age would never ever happen in nature. (Plus dying of diseases or starvation is a vastly worse way to go).
And if you believe that plants are as inherently valuable and intelligent as animals, then the same logic must be applied to them, which means that even vegans are exploiters (by your definition). If all humans are exploiting other living beings simply by eating anything, then the word itself becomes meaningless.
Hi u/selahcarter - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
If you are confused as to what you've said that may have triggered this response, please see [this article](https://www.autistichoya.com/2014/02/violence-linguistic-ableism.html) and the associated [glossary of ableist phrases](https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html) **BEFORE** contacting the moderators.
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WHY HERE?
i thought this was my one space to never hear another thing about this terf, it isn’t even anarchy related, it’s a GAMESPOT ARTICLE
Hi u/earthkincollective - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
If you are confused as to what you've said that may have triggered this response, please see [this article](https://www.autistichoya.com/2014/02/violence-linguistic-ableism.html) and the associated [glossary of ableist phrases](https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html) **BEFORE** contacting the moderators.
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Some people's ideas are truly dumb as rocks. (Actually I think rocks are far more intelligent than people, so maybe that's a bad metaphor lol).
It's statism. Any form of economics where a state is involved, you will experience the same effects. In Western countries, the economic structure is corpratism not free market capitalism. There are no bailouts in real capitalism or hindrances of charity. In the US for example, you can get arrested for feeding, sheltering or otherwise assisting the homeless in many municipalities. The federal government also limits charitable activities such as providing low cost insulin from Mexico for example.
People were making "Covid only kills the old & weak so it ain't that bad" arguments in 2020.
Honestly surprised we didn't see Tucker Carlson openly thanking Covid for reducing govt spending on "undesirables"
You should think about maybe why those animals kill their young etc in nature, and what we can gain or leave behind from nature. Death is not something we can leave behind but we can minimize that through permaculture, which would produce net positive life even for animals, yes.
Hi, u/whatreyoulookinat! Just a polite reminder to please use *universally* gender neutral terms when referring to users until/unless corrected by the user.
For now, your comment has been removed. If you would like to have it reinstated, you can edit your comment to remove any gendered language, and then click the "message the moderators" link below to let us know. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation! =)
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Are you serious tho? An invasion is an invasion don't give one wit if the American govt classifies it as one or not
Edited to add: Villa didn't invade anyone. Literally didn't have the power to. Villa raided.
The Punitive Expedition absolutely involved the taking and occupying an entire state, but beyond that they picked who would win through logistical aid such as weapons and other material up to and not limited by the US gd Navy ferrying troops.
Text transcript ;
Today's denialists are today's openly eugenicist "these disabled people are a drain on society. literally 13 years after the Spanish flue, the very first people Nazis targeted were disabled people.
What caused a lot of these disabilities you think?
The Spanish flue killed 1% of Europe.
It also caused permanent chronic illnesses in then of millions of people.
Kidney disease, developmental disabilities, strokes, etc.
Doctors decades later could tell exactly when their patient's mother contracted the flue during her pregnancy by which organ system shut down first.
​
In the wake of a devastating pandemic, where millions of survivors left with permanent health issues.
For a decade, that sentiment festered and simmered. More people got sick again, from different things but recovered poorly.
Kids who'd had fevers as infants, became 12 years old with developmental disabilities.
​
One big platform of nazism was "life unworthy of life".
Propaganda posters describing the cost of keeping disabled people alive, as a burden.
People who probably got the flu 13 years earlier and never fully recovered.
Elderly people were less mobile, sicker, more reliant on care.
Over a decade, long flu kept becoming more and more visible.
The nazis capitalized on this issue, and the very first thing they did in power was murder disabled people.
(note from OP: I am so so scared of MAiD (canada's bill about assisted suicide; a lot of healthy people get suggested it before they get the help they are asking for, and some disabled people kept in poverty say that they are just too poor to live and they rater kill us then to give us enough to live and expend access to disability, in my province, at least 60% of people on welfare are disabled people who cannot access disability) , I am so scared they come and kill me even if I love my life, sing, read,learn, love, grow, cook for people and paint all day. I am terrified, especially since I am considered mentally ill and have a physical disability on top of being trans. I know a lot of you do not take this as seriously as you should and think that it'll take a wile to get to full on nazism, it won't. Don't let it suprise you. End of OP talk.)
Imagine. you get a horrific flu. It leaves you permanently unable to breathe properly. Your heart rate spikes.
A decade later, your country declares you a burden worthy of death.
And then Aktion T4 murders you.In america, even before our pandemic, a good portion of the country \*already\* declared those same beliefs about disabled people.
​
The president already spent 4 years attacking healthcare access, cutting budgets to support disabled people.
How long before you see GOP ads describing the raising cost of dialysis for people who's kidneys where destroyed by covid, as an unbearable burden on society?
It took over a decade for a political party to openly decide to kill disabled people.
In america, both party have already made this explicit goal.And the millions of disabled people in the wake of this pandemic have yet to really appear.
(OP notes; It took several month for my symptoms of long covid to show up ,exept for the headaches. It often takes a long time for long covid to show up. End of OP note.)
​
Back then, it took over a decade of increasingly sick survivors of a pandemic before people chose to murder them.
How fast do you think it'll happen in the US? Given how americans already treat those with chronic illnesses?
How long before GOP youtube is full of angry men in sunglasses screaming in their cars about How much it costs to support all the people who've had a longcovid stroke and can no longer care for themselves.
(OP note: I think this is why the make sure that we keep on getting poorer, they want all of us to blame the disabled instead of the real enemy that is the hording rich assholes in their castles. End of OP note.)
It took nazis over a decade to openly declare war on survivors of the Spanish flu.
It won't take anywhere near as long for everyone to do the same towards survivors of covid.
(OP notes: A few disabled folks for you; Rachid Taha, Frida Kahlo, Stevie Wonder, Van Gogh, Michelangelo, Lady Gaga, Stephen Hawking and many more. \*\*\*Disabled folks are worthy of life.\*\*\* End of OP note.)
End of text transcript and OP notes.
Text transcript ;
Today's denialists are today's openly eugenicist "these disabled people are a drain on society. literally 13 years after the Spanish flue, the very first people Nazis targeted were disabled people.
What caused a lot of these disabilities you think?
The Spanish flue killed 1% of Europe.
It also caused permanent chronic illnesses in then of millions of people.
Kidney disease, developmental disabilities, strokes, etc.
Doctors decades later could tell exactly when their patient's mother contracted the flue during her pregnancy by which organ system shut down first.
​
In the wake of a devastating pandemic, where millions of survivors left with permanent health issues.
For a decade, that sentiment festered and simmered. More people got sick again, from different things but recovered poorly.
Kids who'd had fevers as infants, became 12 years old with developmental disabilities.
​
One big platform of nazism was "life unworthy of life".
Propaganda posters describing the cost of keeping disabled people alive, as a burden.
People who probably got the flu 13 years earlier and never fully recovered.
Elderly people were less mobile, sicker, more reliant on care.
Over a decade, long flu kept becoming more and more visible.
The nazis capitalized on this issue, and the very first thing they did in power was murder disabled people.
(note from OP: I am so so scared of MAiD (canada's bill about assisted suicide; a lot of healthy people get suggested it before they get the help they are asking for, and some disabled people kept in poverty say that they are just too poor to live and they rater kill us then to give us enough to live and expend access to disability, in my province, at least 60% of people on welfare are disabled people who cannot access disability) , I am so scared they come and kill me even if I love my life, sing, read,learn, love, grow, cook for people and paint all day. I am terrified, especially since I am considered mentally ill and have a physical disability on top of being trans. I know a lot of you do not take this as seriously as you should and think that it'll take a wile to get to full on nazism, it won't. Don't let it suprise you. End of OP talk.)
Imagine. you get a horrific flu. It leaves you permanently unable to breathe properly. Your heart rate spikes.
A decade later, your country declares you a burden worthy of death.
And then Aktion T4 murders you.In america, even before our pandemic, a good portion of the country \*already\* declared those same beliefs about disabled people.
​
The president already spent 4 years attacking healthcare access, cutting budgets to support disabled people.
How long before you see GOP ads describing the raising cost of dialysis for people who's kidneys where destroyed by covid, as an unbearable burden on society?
It took over a decade for a political party to openly decide to kill disabled people.
In america, both party have already made this explicit goal.And the millions of disabled people in the wake of this pandemic have yet to really appear.
(OP notes; It took several month for my symptoms of long covid to show up ,exept for the headaches. It often takes a long time for long covid to show up. End of OP note.)
​
Back then, it took over a decade of increasingly sick survivors of a pandemic before people chose to murder them.
How fast do you think it'll happen in the US? Given how americans already treat those with chronic illnesses?
How long before GOP youtube is full of angry men in sunglasses screaming in their cars about How much it costs to support all the people who've had a longcovid stroke and can no longer care for themselves.
(OP note: I think this is why the make sure that we keep on getting poorer, they want all of us to blame the disabled instead of the real enemy that is the hording rich assholes in their castles. End of OP note.)
It took nazis over a decade to openly declare war on survivors of the Spanish flu.
It won't take anywhere near as long for everyone to do the same towards survivors of covid.
(OP notes: A few disabled folks for you; Rachid Taha, Frida Kahlo, Stevie Wonder, Van Gogh, Michelangelo, Lady Gaga, Stephen Hawking and many more. \*\*\*Disabled folks are worthy of life.\*\*\* End of OP note.)
End of text transcript and OP notes.
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People were making "Covid only kills the old & weak so it ain't that bad" arguments in 2020.
Honestly surprised we didn't see Tucker Carlson openly thanking Covid for reducing govt spending on "undesirables"
Yo I’m so sorry you have to deal with white people here lol. I got caught up in the vegan movement for a while myself because it’s the rational decision when your mind is still within the framework of capitalism and don’t understand how balance with nature actually creates the best system for everyone, even when that balance includes hunting or farming animals. The issue is veganism is kinda tunnel visioned. Death isn’t a problem necessarily since we all die, it’s whether we’re giving back more than what we’re taking and not causing unnecessary suffering.
Are you serious tho? An invasion is an invasion don't give one wit if the American govt classifies it as one or not
Edited to add: Villa didn't invade anyone. Literally didn't have the power to. Villa raided.
The Punitive Expedition absolutely involved the taking and occupying an entire state, but beyond that they picked who would win through logistical aid such as weapons and other material up to and not limited by the US gd Navy ferrying troops.
“Don’t kill other sentient beings” stop virtue signalling. All of us cause death with our consumption including and ESPECIALLY you (and me) considering you’re relatively well off in worldwide terms. The ethics behind our actions are a lot blurrier than you give credit for, and this is consistent with the fact that animal products are especially bad compared to other foods before you pull that one.
Yes, help Russian protesters, but please also help frontline Ukrainian comrades tooReally sorry for the grumpy post, but I am exhausted from this genocide.
It's been while encouraging to see Russian anarchists finally not both-sidesing this "conflict war" and stopping saying things like "no war but class war", and instead starting to protest and spray paint government buildings and all that, it's been a little discouraging to see that as the forefront of anarchist comrades coming together to take on Russia's government while so many leftists were discouraging us from supporting Ukrainian anarchists struggles for so long even before last year. Let us not forget that yes, being thrown into jail for protesting is terrible, but my Ukrainian comrades here have been looking up a barrel pointed between their eyes for decades (technically centuries, but I mostly mean here as it stands since the fall of the USSR) for standing up to Russia's government.
Please don't forget to support the Ukrainian anarchists who are on the front lines and have been putting their lives at risk for decades before this latest genocidal invasion. I will link a few of the latest support channels, but there are many, many more but I just don't have the mental energy to pull everything up right now I just noticed the only thing people on here going "based!" about is Russian protesters and the hammered on perpetuation of soviet anarchist aesthetics that for some reason to this day, get mistaken as Russian when in fact again, we have Ukrainian anarchists who have been fronting this resistance since day 1, yet constantly get called Russian:
[https://t.me/s/lvivvegankitchen](https://t.me/s/lvivvegankitchen)
[https://twitter.com/gnimperialpride](https://twitter.com/gnimperialpride)
[https://t.me/s/khardcore](https://t.me/s/khardcore)
[https://t.me/helpingtoleave\_bot](https://t.me/helpingtoleave_bot)
[https://www.instagram.com/hwv\_ua/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D](https://www.instagram.com/hwv_ua/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y%3D)
Also this person is a Belarusian comrade who has been a breath of fresh air from the beginning, and I cannot recommend them enough as someone to follow to keep up with all the reports of anarchist struggle in the east of Europe.
https://twitter.com/bad\_immigrant/status/1621932009718169602?s=20
“Don’t kill other sentient beings” stop virtue signalling. All of us cause death with our consumption including and ESPECIALLY you (and me) considering you’re relatively well off in worldwide terms. The ethics behind our actions are a lot blurrier than you give credit for, and this is consistent with the fact that animal products are especially bad compared to other foods before you pull that one.
Wow, you’ve ignored their points multiple times because the existence of indigenous culture is inconvenient for your ideology. That’s pretty pathetic and actually bigoted of you. I’m allying with the indigenous anarchist over people like you any day.
Yo I’m so sorry you have to deal with white people here lol. I got caught up in the vegan movement for a while myself because it’s the rational decision when your mind is still within the framework of capitalism and don’t understand how balance with nature actually creates the best system for everyone, even when that balance includes hunting or farming animals. The issue is veganism is kinda tunnel visioned. Death isn’t a problem necessarily since we all die, it’s whether we’re giving back more than what we’re taking and not causing unnecessary suffering.
If people can and want to be vegan, that's their choice. I wish the nasty vegan edgelords weren't such a thing on the internet, but that's just an unfortunate thing that exists.
We can absolutely sustainably and humanely have meat in our diets, while respecting the animals. In my part of the world, Indigenous folks have been doing so for literal millennia. Hells, people in countless cultures all over the planet have been doing so for millennia.
A big issue I have with the jerk vegans is that they don't seem to understand the actual issues, one of which is the industrial farming industry. Industrial farming soy or whatever is also bad for the environment, trashes ecosystems, harms and kills animals, harms and exploits workers, etc.
Someone raising some goats and chickens on 15 acres is much less harmful, abusive, and exploitative than an industrial soy farm for tofu or whatever. Someone harvesting a caribou or moose and feeding their whole family or community for a winter is also better than an industrial soy farm, for the same aforementioned reasons. (Also, I'd argue more anarchist, since it's side-stepping the capitalism, and is being more community-minded; not profit, not benefiting billionaires, just making sure no one in the community goes hungry.)
Simply wanting to replace one crop with another without addressing the underlying harm and exploitation of the industry isn't actually solving the problem or more moral or any of that.
Also, the logistics simply don't always work that way, depending on where in the world people live. Where I live, for example, there's just not a lot of arable land. We don't have a lot of farmland or orchards. Half our year is winter, cold dark long hard winter, so the actual growing season for food is only a couple-three months. Hunting and fishing and small things like having chickens or goats is really important to ensure people have food, which they need to live.
What we have in the stores here is trucked up for days. Further north, it has to be flown in. This makes all that food wildly expensive, and buying it just lines the pockets of the grocery-chain-owning billionaires. And the further north you go, the more expensive food becomes. There's a reason the Indigenous folks up here ate (and eat) the traditional diets they did (and do).
Some folks in some places of the world have access to affordable meat alternatives, and that's great for them! They should eat them, they need food to live, they should eat the food.
Not all of us have that luxury, we just don't have access to affordable meat alternatives, but we can affordably access meat. We need food to live, so we should eat the food.
Lastly, the jerk vegans would convince more people if they weren't such colossal dicks about it. Being an asshole to people over food isn't convincing anyone the vegan cause is moral and righteous and just, it's just convincing people that vegans are assholes.
Calling people animal abusers because they have goats on an acreage to feed their family isn't going to convince anyone reasonable to join the cause. It's just going to convince people that the vegans are unhinged assholes.
A lot of that, I think, is insecurity. It's pretty insecure make a dietary lifestyle choice into one's entire personality, and even more so to then pretend it makes one "superior" to everyone who doesn't/can't also make/afford said lifestyle choice. And yeah, the whole accusing people of eating food to be "abusers" or "monsters" or whatever, that's just sad little edgelords trying to be edgy. Like a pizza cutter, all edge and no point. It's just to be all "look at me, so edgy, I say these shocking things on the internet for attention, do I shock you?!? I'm so edgy" which again, just screams desperate insecurity.
Most of my guns are for hunting but I could use them for other purposes if needed.
All I've done is ask for evidence.
When you make positive claims, it absolutely is your duty. I simply asked for a source. I can't see how that is aggressive or ill mannered. It seems like you should just leave if you don't like it.
That doesn't support your claim. It also doesn't account for the fact the regen farming regenerates soil (hence the name) and that you can raise ruminant animals on nonarable land. Nor does it account for the fact the animal foods, especially tuminant meat, are more nutritionally complete and more bioavailable than plant foods. Nor does it account for the destructive properties of monocrop agriculture.
So it falls short.
As for killing animals for pleasure, i don't. I kill them to eat.
I asked for a source. That's rude? Perhaps if you're only concerned with pushing your own viewpoints.
Asking to back up ones claims is making you mad? Typical.
If you make claims like this, you have to back them up. Sorry you prefer dogma over facts.
Very convincing.
Cite a source
"Rape" and "murder." Take it down a notch.
There's no way to tell. Subreddit numbers are not an accurate indicator, for a myriad of reasons. You'd have to do a well-designed global survey, especially one that accounts for people who hold anarchist ideas but don't necessarily describe themselves as anarchist because they don't want to or they don't have the right language for it.
Bookchin is interesting but not really an anarchist. Nothing wrong with that, just good to keep in mind. His work is also incredibly repetitive. He says the same thing over and over, but I guess that's what happens when you write so much.
I don't know if anyone has specifically looked at bookchin but everything he says should be verifiable. He tended to make a lot of blanket statements, so I wouldn't be surprised if some are not accurate.
Because he isn't. He's a municipalist. Some of this early work is anarchist adjacent, and he definitely pulls from anarchist thought, but I don't think he ever identified as such.
You may be right. He may have identified that way but simple being anti-hierarchy doesn't make one an anarchist.
I don't have a gripe at all. I just don't think social ecology or municipalism necessarily aligns with anarchism. That's not a bad thing, just different.
Bingo. Every study vegans cite about animal agriculture takes factory farming as a given. It is the most widespread now, but it's not the only option. These studies also take pork and chicken farming as the norm, which are exponentially worse than beef farming in terms of animal welfare. Vegan ideology is full of manipulation, terrible science, and plain lies. And I'm saying this as a former vegan activist of many years.
A book just came out called The Great Plant Based Con. It's a deep dive into why plant based diets are not better for health or for ecological sustainability. It's long but very engaging. Highly recommend.
Also check out r/LeftistAntiVegan
I don't have a gripe at all. I just don't think social ecology or municipalism necessarily aligns with anarchism. That's not a bad thing, just different.
You may be right. He may have identified that way but simple being anti-hierarchy doesn't make one an anarchist.
Because he isn't. He's a municipalist. Some of this early work is anarchist adjacent, and he definitely pulls from anarchist thought, but I don't think he ever identified as such.
I don't know if anyone has specifically looked at bookchin but everything he says should be verifiable. He tended to make a lot of blanket statements, so I wouldn't be surprised if some are not accurate.
Bookchin is interesting but not really an anarchist. Nothing wrong with that, just good to keep in mind. His work is also incredibly repetitive. He says the same thing over and over, but I guess that's what happens when you write so much.
There's no way to tell. Subreddit numbers are not an accurate indicator, for a myriad of reasons. You'd have to do a well-designed global survey, especially one that accounts for people who hold anarchist ideas but don't necessarily describe themselves as anarchist because they don't want to or they don't have the right language for it.
Is this not already an "online group?" If you mean something like real time chat, there are plenty of discords and signal groups already.
I'm just looking for any actual evidence. You've provided none
Again, there is no agriculture without animals. You need animal inputs unless you use fossil fuel based fertilizers. There's no way around it.
​
>many other ways to feed nutrients to your soil
Again, name one. Composting plants doesn't count because it doesn't scale. It works for a backyard garden but not to feed a community, unless you include animal manure. Any organic fertilizer you buy will have bone and blood meal from animals.
Here's what you said:
​
>Why would you need only animal fertilizer ? There is so many other ways to make a rich soil to grow, there is so many ways to grow something. One of them is "permaculture"
You pretty clearly imply that permaculture is without animals.
Look, not to be blunt but you obviously have no clue what you're talking about here. It's great that you're interested in this stuff and I hope you keep at it, but you're not able to substantiate any of your claims and you're saying things that are just plain false. So I'm stopping now.
Are you serious? That's what hay is...cut grass stored for winter. Who doesn't know about agriculture? My god, get a clue.
That's wrong. I eat mostly grass fed and finished beef, which only eats grass. Ruminant animals take something humans cannot consume, grass, and turn it into some of the most nutrient dense foods we have.
Also why is efficiency your measure? Wouldn't a better measure be related health and/or wellbeing of people eating the food, not the efficiency of the production?
Yeah, youtube videos are not actual sources. The fact is you have no way to support that claim because it is false. While there are plenty of vegan intentional communities, none of them are self sufficient. You either have to provide real evidence for your claim or simply move on.
You would need scaled ag because it is feeding large number of people. You always need animal inputs. The alternative is fossil fuel based fertilizers. This is basic agriculture.
Permaculture often includes animals. I live on a permaculture inspired piece of land and have many animals. Even sites that do not have animals will import compost from outside filled with animal manure. You claim that permaculture means no animals is false.
Name one, and show evidence that there are no animal inputs and they are 100% self sufficient. There are none. Because you need animal inputs for scaled agriculture, or you need to use fertilizers.
Which ones are 100% self sufficient with absolutely no animal inputs?
I don't recognize that at all.
Honestly. If vegans had their way, we would have no topsoil left within a decade. And like you imply, I'll bet that 95% of the vegans advocating for a plant based planet have never even grown a tomato, let alone tried to feed a community on food that's only fit for rabbits.
I never said vegan diet cause disease. Although they are fundamentally nutrient deficient so it's not a stretch.
Show me a study that establishes a causal link between diet and heart disease. It doesn't exist. We only have associations, which are mostly worthless.
No you can't. Plants alone do not regenerate. Soil is made up up dead plants and animals. You need both.
No it isn't. Show some evidence.
It absolutely calls into question any results they share. But let's say that's true. Are calories or nutrients a better measure? Surely humans need nutrients, not just calories. A field of grain has a lot of calories, but it has barely any real nutrients. In fact, grain is packed with anti-nutrients and is contraindicated in most modern disease. It seems like nutrient profile compared to land use would be a better measure.
My final point is directly refuting what you said about needing more food to feed animals. Most of that food is byproducts from other industries, so why would it matter? they are eating things we can't eat. And we don't even need to feed ruminants anything. So instead of stopping meat altogether, which would have devastating effects on global health, a better option would be to scale back monogastric farming and ramp up ruminant farming. Yes, ruminants take a lot of land, but they can also graze on nonarable land and they can [regenerate](https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grassfed-beef) soil as they go. Plant agriculture without animal inputs is not feasible. We already barely have any topsoil left because of monocrop agriculture.
I was a vegan activist for many years. The diet ruined my health and I finally realized vegan ideology is a house of cards. Not here to change anyone's mind necessarily, just want to move the conversation beyond sound bites.
The full article is paywalled, but from what I can see, the article doesn't account for the fact that livestock can be raised on nonarable land and ruminant animals need little to no inputs other than grass. It also likely doesn't account for the fact that animals foods are exponentially more nutrient dense than plant foods, or that a high carbohydrate diet is contraindicated in a myriad of modern diseases. Nor would it account for regenerative agriculture, which has been shown to be carbon negative. [https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grassfed-beef](https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grassfed-beef)
You didn't provide an actual source, just a collection of charts. Which one are you referring to?
You could also maybe point to a less biased source. Our World in Data takes most of its funding from the Gates foundation and Susanne Klatten. The former has an obvious vested interest in promoting plant based diets, as they are huge investors in lab meat and plant based fake meats, as well as Gates being the largest owner of farm land in the world. The latter has major investments in pharma and automotive, which amounts to a vested interest in keeping people sick and diverting attention away from the environmental impacts of transportation.
​
>more food to feed animals over their lifetimes before you slaughter them
This is only true of chicken, pork, and other monogastrics, which I agree we should eat less of. Ruminant animals live on grass alone and can be raised on land that is not fit for crop agriculture. In addition, 86% of livestock feed is not fit for human consumption [https://www.cgiar.org/news-events/news/fao-sets-the-record-straight-86-of-livestock-feed-is-inedible-by-humans](https://www.cgiar.org/news-events/news/fao-sets-the-record-straight-86-of-livestock-feed-is-inedible-by-humans)
Source? Because that's not true at all.
>produces much more food
What? Source for this?
I doubt anything would really change in diet just by shifting to communism.
Most of my guns are for hunting but I could use them for other purposes if needed.
I think you have to specify the scenario. Are you talking just a shift from capitalism to some other global economic system or a complete SHTF situation?
Anarchisim has filled me with toxic hatredI used too be just a person that loved people and disliked evil things. I had no ideology, I just lived my life and pointed out badness when I saw it.
Then one day I stumbled upon anarchisim. I was super excited too see people sharing my very esoteric values on racisim, speciesisim, anti-police, etc. I floated around the community for a bit just enjoying my ideas and values being validated. Love and respect for all life.
Then I started coming across the violent stuff. Not just burning cars, or self-defense - but stuff about killing police, celebrating the deaths of former cops by suicide, fantasizing about murdering old people. It made me feel sick to my stomach. I tried to voice my opinion, that all life should be respected, and while self-defence is necessary, is a truely heavy and sad thing, nothing to be celebrated.
But I was shot down. I was made too feel as if I was a horrible person because I didn't want to hate people... and slowly over repeated exposure, I started believing them. I started reading theory, I started persicuting people, wanting to force them to believe diffrently or wanting too hurt them. I became helplessly mad. I had anger issues like I had never had in my life. I started lashing out at everyone. I was just on the internet arguing all the time. I hated just about everyone for some slight flaw.
...
I want to take it all back.
I'm sorry but...
I don't think I'm comfortable with hurting people, or celebrating hurting people.
Call me naive or an idealist, but I just want to live and love people.
I'm throwing it all away.
I'm just a pacifist, just a hippy.
I'm not sure what community I fit into, but I don't think it's the violent anarchist one.
Maybe there's some other group I fit better.
I would love to hear yall's opinions on this stuff.
Thanks for hearing me out.
> It boils down to "do you think other animals are equal to humans?"
I have to push back against this, as most vegans I know, including myself, don't think this way. I don't think a chicken's life I equal to a human's life. It would be more accurate to say it boils down to "do you find it morally acceptable to kill a sentient being for enjoyment?"
Anarchisim has filled me with toxic hatredI used too be just a person that loved people and disliked evil things. I had no ideology, I just lived my life and pointed out badness when I saw it.
Then one day I stumbled upon anarchisim. I was super excited too see people sharing my very esoteric values on racisim, speciesisim, anti-police, etc. I floated around the community for a bit just enjoying my ideas and values being validated. Love and respect for all life.
Then I started coming across the violent stuff. Not just burning cars, or self-defense - but stuff about killing police, celebrating the deaths of former cops by suicide, fantasizing about murdering old people. It made me feel sick to my stomach. I tried to voice my opinion, that all life should be respected, and while self-defence is necessary, is a truely heavy and sad thing, nothing to be celebrated.
But I was shot down. I was made too feel as if I was a horrible person because I didn't want to hate people... and slowly over repeated exposure, I started believing them. I started reading theory, I started persicuting people, wanting to force them to believe diffrently or wanting too hurt them. I became helplessly mad. I had anger issues like I had never had in my life. I started lashing out at everyone. I was just on the internet arguing all the time. I hated just about everyone for some slight flaw.
...
I want to take it all back.
I'm sorry but...
I don't think I'm comfortable with hurting people, or celebrating hurting people.
Call me naive or an idealist, but I just want to live and love people.
I'm throwing it all away.
I'm just a pacifist, just a hippy.
I'm not sure what community I fit into, but I don't think it's the violent anarchist one.
Maybe there's some other group I fit better.
I would love to hear yall's opinions on this stuff.
Thanks for hearing me out.
steamed hams if it was vanguard party rule:
But it isn't. It's breeding and killing to eat, not rape and murder. This deliberately hyperbolic language is intended to tug at the heartstrings but it also obfuscates the reality of the situation. No one is raping animals by artificially insemination them.
Of course it does. The benefits of animal foods justify land use. We have raised animals for 10k years without issue and without an industrial model. Seems like the problem is not farming but something else.
Sure you can live, but you can't thrive. Vegan diets are nutritionally deficient.
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The Lopez’s family’s current landlord is a slumlord who is harassing them to move for unfair and potentially illegal reasons. This is putting a lot of stress on the family including their young children who are all under 10 and their newborn baby. Many tenants in the same apartment complex are undocumented and the landlord has been taking advantage of this fact. The landlord thinks he can get away with this discriminatory bullying just because the tenants don’t speak English.We say no! We’re calling on the Mutual Aid Overland and St. Louis network to help us support our neighbors in their time of need
But it isn't. It's breeding and killing to eat, not rape and murder. This deliberately hyperbolic language is intended to tug at the heartstrings but it also obfuscates the reality of the situation. No one is raping animals by artificially insemination them.
Don't think I can convince you, if you can't see the simple mathematical fact that humans have populated the earth in a rate that no free graze farming can ever satisfy.
You can thrive on vegan diets.
But who cares about all that, let's be real here, you don't really need "facts" or "data", you just want to eat meat, otherwise you'd answer the very basic question at the heart of this: how to justify the killing of innocent creatures for your pleasure.
Why are you trying to argue this point? Anarchism simply does not compute logically with eating meat, and I heavily doubt you're even an anarchist.
There should be a sub dedicated to showing when people use the wrong definition of anarchy (Violence, etc)
But it isn't. It's breeding and killing to eat, not rape and murder. This deliberately hyperbolic language is intended to tug at the heartstrings but it also obfuscates the reality of the situation. No one is raping animals by artificially insemination them.
Don't think I can convince you, if you can't see the simple mathematical fact that humans have populated the earth in a rate that no free graze farming can ever satisfy.
You can thrive on vegan diets.
But who cares about all that, let's be real here, you don't really need "facts" or "data", you just want to eat meat, otherwise you'd answer the very basic question at the heart of this: how to justify the killing of innocent creatures for your pleasure.
Why are you trying to argue this point? Anarchism simply does not compute logically with eating meat, and I heavily doubt you're even an anarchist.
Well alright then, allow me to explain:
I probably can't be a vegan, because even if I stop using products directly produced from animals, I cannot participate in modern society without being partly responsible for the death of animals.
The social housing complex I live in was built on land that was previously the habitat of a whole bunch of animals, a bunch of whom almost certainly died when the land was prepared for construction. As long as I live here I'm benefiting from the death of animals...
The same is true for almost all construction, so the store where I get my food, the factories that produced all of my stuff, the sewers that take my waste, the roads I use to get places (by foot, bicycle or public transport, because I don't own a car, I don't even have driver's license), all the infrastructure that I rely on all of it makes me complicit in the death of other animals.
For that matter, I cannot guarantee that all of the providers of services I make use of or products I buy used non-lethal traps to deal with small animals they consider pests. I know for a fact that the housing coop that owns my social housing apartment makes use of exterminators for pest control, because when I moved in here, I was provided a folder that included their number and an explanation that their fee, if I was to call them, was covered by my rent, so as long as I pay rent to my coop, some of that is going to the death of animals.
And that's not even counting the amount of accidental animal death we as a society cause.
Simply living in this world makes one complicit in the death of animals, the only way a person could stop being complicit in the death of animals is to stop living at all.
I struggled with this on a moral and emotional level for a long time and the way that I finally resolved this conflict was to accept that animals kill other animals for a variety of reasons and if it is not immoral for other animals, then cannot be immoral for human animals.
So now, instead I focus on trying to abolish cruelty and excess in how we deal with our fellow animals.
Well alright then, allow me to explain:
I probably can't be a vegan, because even if I stop using products directly produced from animals, I cannot participate in modern society without being partly responsible for the death of animals.
The social housing complex I live in was built on land that was previously the habitat of a whole bunch of animals, a bunch of whom almost certainly died when the land was prepared for construction. As long as I live here I'm benefiting from the death of animals...
The same is true for almost all construction, so the store where I get my food, the factories that produced all of my stuff, the sewers that take my waste, the roads I use to get places (by foot, bicycle or public transport, because I don't own a car, I don't even have driver's license), all the infrastructure that I rely on all of it makes me complicit in the death of other animals.
For that matter, I cannot guarantee that all of the providers of services I make use of or products I buy used non-lethal traps to deal with small animals they consider pests. I know for a fact that the housing coop that owns my social housing apartment makes use of exterminators for pest control, because when I moved in here, I was provided a folder that included their number and an explanation that their fee, if I was to call them, was covered by my rent, so as long as I pay rent to my coop, some of that is going to the death of animals.
And that's not even counting the amount of accidental animal death we as a society cause.
Simply living in this world makes one complicit in the death of animals, the only way a person could stop being complicit in the death of animals is to stop living at all.
I struggled with this on a moral and emotional level for a long time and the way that I finally resolved this conflict was to accept that animals kill other animals for a variety of reasons and if it is not immoral for other animals, then cannot be immoral for human animals.
So now, instead I focus on trying to abolish cruelty and excess in how we deal with our fellow animals.
Hello, u/Live_Leather8599! Unfortunately, your submission has been removed, as it appears to be better suited for r/Anarchy101, which is a great resource to learn more about some of the fundamentals of anarchism, its history, etc. We recommend stopping over there and first **using the search bar** to see if your question has already been asked and answered before creating a new post.
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* [What exactly is Anarchism?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc3)
* [How will decisions be made?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc16)
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What is libertarian marxism?
What is libertarian marxism?
What is libertarian marxism?
The thing is, the farming and killing of animals for human consumption on its own its inherently exploitative on its own. It wouldnt matter if the farming is done in a different way. The motive still stays. Even if the conditions improve.
This whole debate about veganism is very moral driven. It boils down to "do you think other animals are equal to humans?"
But it also boils down to health. In the end we are omnivores. And its a personal choice.
The most ethical way to consume meat in the future will most likely be lab grown meat. I think in about 20 years itll be just as normal as any other meat. Itll have to be with the state of how things are.
The thing is, the farming and killing of animals for human consumption on its own its inherently exploitative on its own. It wouldnt matter if the farming is done in a different way. The motive still stays. Even if the conditions improve.
This whole debate about veganism is very moral driven. It boils down to "do you think other animals are equal to humans?"
But it also boils down to health. In the end we are omnivores. And its a personal choice.
The most ethical way to consume meat in the future will most likely be lab grown meat. I think in about 20 years itll be just as normal as any other meat. Itll have to be with the state of how things are.
Not a single thing of what you cited was of any use for the simple math, if today almost all of our agricultural land is used by livestock, how can you provide the same amount of food with significantly less space?
As for killing to eat, you can live without meat, perfectly healthy too, you just don't want to, so it is pleasure.
Not a single thing of what you cited was of any use for the simple math, if today almost all of our agricultural land is used by livestock, how can you provide the same amount of food with significantly less space?
As for killing to eat, you can live without meat, perfectly healthy too, you just don't want to, so it is pleasure.
Nooo, your being toxic and rude, leave and tutch some grass. Please for your own sake.
That doesn't support your claim. It also doesn't account for the fact the regen farming regenerates soil (hence the name) and that you can raise ruminant animals on nonarable land. Nor does it account for the fact the animal foods, especially tuminant meat, are more nutritionally complete and more bioavailable than plant foods. Nor does it account for the destructive properties of monocrop agriculture.
So it falls short.
As for killing animals for pleasure, i don't. I kill them to eat.
That doesn't support your claim. It also doesn't account for the fact the regen farming regenerates soil (hence the name) and that you can raise ruminant animals on nonarable land. Nor does it account for the fact the animal foods, especially tuminant meat, are more nutritionally complete and more bioavailable than plant foods. Nor does it account for the destructive properties of monocrop agriculture.
So it falls short.
As for killing animals for pleasure, i don't. I kill them to eat.
https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets
Currently out of all habitable lands, 50% is agriculture, out of that 50%, 77% is livestock, 23% is crops.
For livestock free grazing you need "as a rule of thumb", 1-2 acres per cow.
Today over 70% of livestock is factory farmed.
In the US alone you have over 40 million cows, hell, in Nebraska there's a factory farm that slaughters 7000 cows every day.
Try translating 7000 cows per day into a free graze farm and you'll have to cover the entire earth in farms.
Not to mention that we are constantly growing in size industrially, and we're literally destroying our forests and oceans in order to meet animal agriculture supply.
It's not only incredibly naive to think this is sustainable, but it's also extremely privileged to think you can live off of animals in your own plot of land without significant power to create such a life style.
There are too many people in the world and if you wish to feed everyone, you don't have any other option than factory farming.
Unless you go vegan, you can turn that 70% livestock land to crops and exponentially increase the amount of food that we can create.
And that's not even counting the most important question, how do you justify killing innocent creatures for your pleasure?
https://ourworldindata.org/agricultural-land-by-global-diets
Currently out of all habitable lands, 50% is agriculture, out of that 50%, 77% is livestock, 23% is crops.
For livestock free grazing you need "as a rule of thumb", 1-2 acres per cow.
Today over 70% of livestock is factory farmed.
In the US alone you have over 40 million cows, hell, in Nebraska there's a factory farm that slaughters 7000 cows every day.
Try translating 7000 cows per day into a free graze farm and you'll have to cover the entire earth in farms.
Not to mention that we are constantly growing in size industrially, and we're literally destroying our forests and oceans in order to meet animal agriculture supply.
It's not only incredibly naive to think this is sustainable, but it's also extremely privileged to think you can live off of animals in your own plot of land without significant power to create such a life style.
There are too many people in the world and if you wish to feed everyone, you don't have any other option than factory farming.
Unless you go vegan, you can turn that 70% livestock land to crops and exponentially increase the amount of food that we can create.
And that's not even counting the most important question, how do you justify killing innocent creatures for your pleasure?
Hi, u/theleshiy. Just a friendly reminder that phrases like "terminally online" and "touch grass" are ableist and help to perpetuate the harmful idea that one's value and contribution to anarchism and anarchist praxis is centered solely on "meatspace" interactions. We recognize that in-person organizing is important, and we encourage it, but our disabled comrades are valuable, as are their contributions regardless of their ability to go outside.
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I never though of Anarchism as left wing.I started out as conservative, worked towards libertarian right, and now I'm full blood anarchist. I've never drifted left but I guess some of my ideals are considered left now. But I always see facist refer to the Right when it goes both ways equally. Older left (like the 60s) fits anarchism a little better than current left but still. What are yalls thoughts on this?
Oh fuck! we don't have any units to kill the bloons! someone place sniper monkies!
You can't, in order to "sustainably" raise livestock, you require enormous amounts of space.
The only way to currently feed the amount of people in the world with meat requires factory farming.
The data is very prevalent, it's not hard to find, factory farming is more efficient, free grazing and all that simply cannot provide enough for the amount of people in the world.
Disregarding all that, how do you justify the killing of innocents for pleasure?
People are far too comfortable with the idea of nature. If we look at it objectively, we see that ecosystems are sustained through violent assault with all the suffering and trauma that it brings. It's certainly unpleasant and difficult to think about, which is why so many people simply embrace cognitive dissonance and hold up nature as some kind of ideal. Try having empathy for another animal and those affected by their death while killing them and you'll do some serious damage to your mental health. Obviously, our psychology has adapted to prevent this through bias. If our way of life distances us from empathy and excuses brutality, it is simply ethical to do what we can to change. Even though we can't presently alter the natural paradigm without making things worse, we can and should aspire to improve our own perspectives and behaviour beyond the paradigm of our origins.
I'm sure you've all heard of the earthquakes that wreaked havoc across a swathe of Turkey and northwest Syria on Monday. It's brought down whole apartment blocks in Turkish cities and piled more devastation on millions of Syrians displaced by years of war. Thousands have been killed, and it's only rising. So, how can we help?
I live in Sweden, and it's likely that most of us are very limited in our capability to contribute with direct action here. So, what are our best options? Is there any way we can get involved, or support the anarchist groups there that are involved? If our only choice is charity, which are the best ones to donate to?
Hope any of you have some more insight into this, cause I'm feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed by all the information and lack of direction. Wishing my brothers and sisters in the areas affected the best. If anything, I keep you in my thoughts during this crisis.
I don’t think a lot of people have the mental constitution to handle debate. I think cognitive dissonance kicks in at some point and rather than face it, it’s easier to dismiss ideas and people that don’t align.
As someone who was raised on a small farm, I have seen systematic rape (artificial insemination) and murder on a regular basis on creatures that trust us.
Honestly, I don't care about ecological arguments. You westerners put some animals lives above others and it sickens me to the core. Unless you can raise a puppy by hand then kill it. Your beliefs are inconsistent.
As someone who was raised on a small farm, I have seen systematic rape (artificial insemination) and murder on a regular basis on creatures that trust us.
Honestly, I don't care about ecological arguments. You westerners put some animals lives above others and it sickens me to the core. Unless you can raise a puppy by hand then kill it. Your beliefs are inconsistent.
I don’t think a lot of people have the mental constitution to handle debate. I think cognitive dissonance kicks in at some point and rather than face it, it’s easier to dismiss ideas and people that don’t align.
Game looks amazing! Cancel her all you want that’s not why I play games
Why do you WANT that to be factual?
There’s no way this is true.
WHY ARE THEY WORKING WITHOUT A PROFIT INCENTIVE!!! 😡🤬🤬
Unfortunately, your post has been removed, as it appears to be better suited for r/Anarchy101, which is a great resource to learn more about some of the fundamentals of anarchism, its history, etc. We recommend stopping over there and first **using the search bar** to see if your question has already been asked and answered before creating a new post.
Some other great resources you may be interested in include [our introduction to anarchism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/primer) as well as [Anarchy Works](https://anarchy.works/primer.html) - an excellent book that covers a large number of frequently asked questions. If you prefer an ebook version, you can get a free copy in epub format [here](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works.epub), but for someone trying to learn what anarchism is about, we would specifically recommend the following sections:
* [What exactly is Anarchism?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc3)
* [How will decisions be made?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc16)
* [Economy: How will exchange work?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc29)
* [It works when we make it work](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc67)
In the meantime, you're still more than welcome to engage with the community while you learn!
What would Anarchist society look like?If someday Anarchist succeed to overthrow the system what would it look like? What would living in Anarchist society look like? Can it become corrupt overtime?
What would Anarchist society look like?If someday Anarchist succeed to overthrow the system what would it look like? What would living in Anarchist society look like? Can it become corrupt overtime?
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Hey there, u/CloudCodex. Please direct any requests for mutual aid, donations, etc. to our weekly [Mutual Aid Monday threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/search/?q=%22mutual+aid+monday%22&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new).
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How can we help those affected by the Turkey & Syria earthquakes?Hello!
I'm sure you've all heard of the earthquakes that wreaked havoc across a swathe of Turkey and northwest Syria on Monday. It's brought down whole apartment blocks in Turkish cities and piled more devastation on millions of Syrians displaced by years of war. Thousands have been killed, and it's only rising. So, how can we help?
I live in Sweden, and it's likely that most of us are very limited in our capability to directly help here. So, what are our best options? Is there any way we can get involved, or support the anarchist groups there that are involved? If our only choice is charity, which are the best ones to donate to?
Hope any of you have some more insight into this, cause I'm feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed by all the information and lack of direction. Wishing my brothers and sisters in the areas affected the best. If anything, I keep you in my thoughts during this crisis.
I'm sure you've all heard of the earthquakes that wreaked havoc across a swathe of Turkey and northwest Syria on Monday. It's brought down whole apartment blocks in Turkish cities and piled more devastation on millions of Syrians displaced by years of war. Thousands have been killed, and it's only rising. So, how can we help?
I live in Sweden, and it's likely that most of us are very limited in our capability to contribute with direct action here. So, what are our best options? Is there any way we can get involved, or support the anarchist groups there that are involved? If our only choice is charity, which are the best ones to donate to?
Hope any of you have some more insight into this, cause I'm feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed by all the information and lack of direction. Wishing my brothers and sisters in the areas affected the best. If anything, I keep you in my thoughts during this crisis.
Hey there, u/CloudCodex. Please direct any requests for mutual aid, donations, etc. to our weekly [Mutual Aid Monday threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/search/?q=%22mutual+aid+monday%22&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Anarchism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
How can we help those affected by the Turkey & Syria earthquakes?Hello!
I'm sure you've all heard of the earthquakes that wreaked havoc across a swathe of Turkey and northwest Syria on Monday. It's brought down whole apartment blocks in Turkish cities and piled more devastation on millions of Syrians displaced by years of war. Thousands have been killed, and it's only rising. So, how can we help?
I live in Sweden, and it's likely that most of us are very limited in our capability to contribute with direct action here. So, what are our best options? Is there any way we can get involved, or support the anarchist groups there that are involved? If our only choice is charity, which are the best ones to donate to?
Hope any of you have some more insight into this, cause I'm feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed by all the information and lack of direction. Wishing my brothers and sisters in the areas affected the best. If anything, I keep you in my thoughts during this crisis.
People are far too comfortable with the idea of nature. If we look at it objectively, we see that ecosystems are sustained through violent assault with all the suffering and trauma that it brings. It's certainly unpleasant and difficult to think about, which is why so many people simply embrace cognitive dissonance and hold up nature as some kind of ideal. Try having empathy for another animal and those affected by their death while killing them and you'll do some serious damage to your mental health. Obviously, our psychology has adapted to prevent this through bias. If our way of life distances us from empathy and excuses brutality, it is simply ethical to do what we can to change. Even though we can't presently alter the natural paradigm without making things worse, we can and should aspire to improve our own perspectives and behaviour beyond the paradigm of our origins.
You can't, in order to "sustainably" raise livestock, you require enormous amounts of space.
The only way to currently feed the amount of people in the world with meat requires factory farming.
The data is very prevalent, it's not hard to find, factory farming is more efficient, free grazing and all that simply cannot provide enough for the amount of people in the world.
Disregarding all that, how do you justify the killing of innocents for pleasure?
Hey there, u/n0noTAGAinnxw4Yn3wp7. Please direct any requests for mutual aid, donations, etc. to our weekly [Mutual Aid Monday threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/search/?q=%22mutual+aid+monday%22&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new).
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“This is a call to fightback against the COVID genocide.”
Oh fuck! we don't have any units to kill the bloons! someone place sniper monkies!
What Are You Reading/Book Club Tuesday What you are reading, watching, or listening to? Or how far have you gotten in your chosen selection since last week?
What Are You Reading/Book Club Tuesday What you are reading, watching, or listening to? Or how far have you gotten in your chosen selection since last week?
Mutual Aid MondayHave a mutual aid project you'd like to promote? In need of some aid yourself? Let us know.
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I never though of Anarchism as left wing.I started out as conservative, worked towards libertarian right, and now I'm full blood anarchist. I've never drifted left but I guess some of my ideals are considered left now. But I always see facist refer to the Right when it goes both ways equally. Older left (like the 60s) fits anarchism a little better than current left but still. What are yalls thoughts on this?
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I mean that I don't really give a shit about its existence, you can do whatever you like and I'm fine with it but I've had enough of communism lol it gets tiring
good for them, but it's still frustrating af to be constantly seeing people idolizing communism in anarchist contexts
is that even relevant at all lol
so that they can just buy another one?
nah, the best strategy would be to achieve autonomy and then hit the foundation of society
timing is spot on lol
I just find it funny how people can't understand what I was implying just because I didn't expressively say "bOoO nAzI bAd!!!"
at least they're doing something-
most people just like to talk about how they are this and that without ever even seriously thinking about fighting for their views
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Looking to make friends in hawaiiI’ve lived in honolulu my whole life. I’m tired of this capitalism system. I live on a island that has been exploited the fuck out of. I get shitty job after shitty job. I will never support politicians or the state. I don’t do drugs, don’t have sex. I just want to find like minded people to talk to and hang out with. I’m done with everything.
Looking to make friends in hawaiiI’ve lived in honolulu my whole life. I’m tired of this capitalism system. I live on a island that has been exploited the fuck out of. I get shitty job after shitty job. I will never support politicians or the state. I don’t do drugs, don’t have sex. I just want to find like minded people to talk to and hang out with. I’m done with everything.
I am so sorry, I absolutely empathise. I am currently residing in the UAE, it's killing me. defies every single one of my morals. i hope to get out soon; i hope you get out soon, or find a safe, like-minded community near you. so many hugs and so much solidarity
I am so sorry, I absolutely empathise. I am currently residing in the UAE, it's killing me. defies every single one of my morals. i hope to get out soon; i hope you get out soon, or find a safe, like-minded community near you. so many hugs and so much solidarity
I’m convinced that in order for an anarchist society to prevent the re-emergence of hierarchical domination, it must very actively push back against that idea of balance sheets, contracts, tit-for-tat exchanges, etc. These are the roots of wealth accumulation, debt peonage, and slavery.
I don’t believe that domination ever comes about because some exceptionally evil people decided to oppress others, or at least not that alone. Domination always needed to be justified with some kind of “objectivity”, as if there is anything objective about letting the homeless freeze or a child go to bed hungry while a ruling class lives in mansions. You can’t afford rent? Well, the landlord needs their bills paid too; it’s nothing personal. You need your job to survive? I’m sorry, but your employer will go bankrupt if they don’t fire you. Women want equal rights? But only men are capable to be leaders, it is a biological fact.
The idea that human affairs need to be reduced to a calculation of some kind to make them fair is what truly gives systems of domination their punch. The only way to make a large-scale economy work and not default to some kind of hierarchical command structure is for everyone to trust one another to not screw them over. Getting communities and individuals half way across the globe from one another to trust in each another without an “objective” monetary system or military force to enforce contracts might be a challenge.
how would destroying the power grid help their cause tho? most nazis are terminally online
Heyva Sor a Kurdistanê: urgent appeal for help for earthquake victims
You know, it's real hard to get me to legitimately lose my patience, so... Pretty impressive.
> Stop killing animals.
Putting aside that the only animals I have have ever personally ended the lives of were bugs (and the only animals I have ever ended the lives of on purpose were specifically mosquitoes):
I solemnly promise you that I will stop participating in a society that kills animals by the truckload when you do too.
No... I take that back, because there's only one way to actually achieve that, aside from achieving a very specific form of anarchism in our lifetime, and I would truly prefer it if you, moreso actually than myself, live a long and hopefully fulfilling life for as long as possible.
You know, it's real hard to get me to legitimately lose my patience, so... Pretty impressive.
> Stop killing animals.
Putting aside that the only animals I have have ever personally ended the lives of were bugs (and the only animals I have ever ended the lives of on purpose were specifically mosquitoes):
I solemnly promise you that I will stop participating in a society that kills animals by the truckload when you do too.
No... I take that back, because there's only one way to actually achieve that, aside from achieving a very specific form of anarchism in our lifetime, and I would truly prefer it if you, moreso actually than myself, live a long and hopefully fulfilling life for as long as possible.
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Join the revolution!!! lol
The Problem with Mini-America
Bookchin is blowing my mind but i love it. maybe we can go beyond mutual aid.
Anybody on about the earth quake in Rojava?Anybody know about the earth quake in Rojava*
Surprised this sub is so silent about this. Idk why I, an inactive Reddit user who hasnt posted in months is the first to say it.
Any news on how they're dealing with it? Or what people outside of Rojava are doing to help out?
looking for books about rojava that also have anarchist critique in them do you guys know any?
Bookchin’s Anthropology.Curious if anyone is aware of any investigation or critique into the anthropological basis of Murray Bookchin’s philosophy. Read The Ecology of Freedom recently and was wondering how valid the anthropological evidence he references (for example, matricentric societies lacking hierarchical structures) is especially after half a century of further research. Has anyone looked into this?
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ah yes, of course I did.
cause I'm not only stupid enough to be a nazi, but to publicly defend then too huh? Y'all either don't know how to read or are too stupid to understand what I said
Hi, u/theleshiy. Just a friendly reminder that phrases like "terminally online" and "touch grass" are ableist and help to perpetuate the harmful idea that one's value and contribution to anarchism and anarchist praxis is centered solely on "meatspace" interactions. We recognize that in-person organizing is important, and we encourage it, but our disabled comrades are valuable, as are their contributions regardless of their ability to go outside.
We highly recommend [this video](https://youtube.com/watch?v=iGFSJ3gv1kY) ([watch on Invidious](https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=iGFSJ3gv1kY)) for further explanation.
This may also be a great time for you to take a moment to review our [Anti-Oppression Policy](https://reddit.com/r/anarchism/wiki/aop) to see how and why we try create and maintain a safe space for marginalized people to hang out without seeing mirrors of their oppression and language used to degrade them based on their marginalized identities.
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You had me up until that last paragraph. I have to make some very conscious decisions about my diet due to severe iron and b12 deficiency. These are better than engaging with mass slaughter though. Idk I’m getting real tired of this conversation. Don’t kill other sentient beings but if it’s more important that you do so, stop calling yourself an anarchist. Gatekeeping? Yes. I don’t fucking care. This should not be taking up any energy for anarchists. Stop killing animals. Full stop.
How do you describe/ oppose libertarianism to anarchism?
Hello, u/appsylhi! Unfortunately, your submission has been removed, as it appears to be better suited for r/Anarchy101, which is a great resource to learn more about some of the fundamentals of anarchism, its history, etc. We recommend stopping over there and first **using the search bar** to see if your question has already been asked and answered before creating a new post.
Some other great resources you may be interested in include [our introduction to anarchism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/primer) as well as [Anarchy Works](https://anarchy.works/primer.html) - an excellent book that covers a large number of frequently asked questions. If you prefer an ebook version, you can get a free copy in epub format [here](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works.epub), but for someone trying to learn what anarchism is about, we would specifically recommend the following sections:
* [What exactly is Anarchism?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc3)
* [How will decisions be made?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc16)
* [Economy: How will exchange work?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc29)
* [It works when we make it work](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc67)
In the meantime, you're still more than welcome to engage with the community while you learn!
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How do you describe/ oppose libertarianism to anarchism?
How do you describe/ oppose libertarianism to anarchism?
You had me up until that last paragraph. I have to make some very conscious decisions about my diet due to severe iron and b12 deficiency. These are better than engaging with mass slaughter though. Idk I’m getting real tired of this conversation. Don’t kill other sentient beings but if it’s more important that you do so, stop calling yourself an anarchist. Gatekeeping? Yes. I don’t fucking care. This should not be taking up any energy for anarchists. Stop killing animals. Full stop.
How do you describe/ oppose libertarianism to anarchism?
I’m convinced that in order for an anarchist society to prevent the re-emergence of hierarchical domination, it must very actively push back against that idea of balance sheets, contracts, tit-for-tat exchanges, etc. These are the roots of wealth accumulation, debt peonage, and slavery.
I don’t believe that domination ever comes about because some exceptionally evil people decided to oppress others, or at least not that alone. Domination always needed to be justified with some kind of “objectivity”, as if there is anything objective about letting the homeless freeze or a child go to bed hungry while a ruling class lives in mansions. You can’t afford rent? Well, the landlord needs their bills paid too; it’s nothing personal. You need your job to survive? I’m sorry, but your employer will go bankrupt if they don’t fire you. Women want equal rights? But only men are capable to be leaders, it is a biological fact.
The idea that human affairs need to be reduced to a calculation of some kind to make them fair is what truly gives systems of domination their punch. The only way to make a large-scale economy work and not default to some kind of hierarchical command structure is for everyone to trust one another to not screw them over. Getting communities and individuals half way across the globe from one another to trust in each another without an “objective” monetary system or military force to enforce contracts might be a challenge.
If it's about individual why then you ( and actually mostly that girl ) put a label on people?
Why an argument about something which is in general terms becomes personal and about how it is my diet?
If no vegan would argue about that, then why, saying anarchist must be vegan otherwise it is oppression of the animals, a correct thing to do? I though that in anarchism every community would make its own rules based on the needs of the community, so the need of a label and a restriction at all?
Do you want to make it personal? Okay, well here some information so you can accuse of whatever you want:
When I used to live in my native country I used to spearfish. The only meat I was eating was from the fishes I was catching. I was also picking up plastic and trash other people were producing and throwing in the ocean.To catch fishes you have to go 20 meter deep and you have to hold your breath for 2 minutes most of the time. It is very very dangerous and many people die because of that. I see the creatures die because of my hands. I do it as humanly possible and try to make them suffer the less I can. Most of the time they die instantly. I am not in my environment, I am not using an unfair advantage and I am risking my own life. You also have quite a connection with those creatures because you are taking them out and it is not an easy. I think that if most people had to do that, probably they would eat less meat and be more respectful of animals. When you see it in the store wrapped in plastic it is not the same. You are not respecting the animal.
Do you want to know my plans for my future?When I will have enough resources I will move to a cheap countryside, my dream is to take land and restore it and make it forest, make the animals thrive there and restore the environment, I would also love to grow food and give it to my family and the eccess sell it or give it away according to what is possible. I'd also like to give animals a chance to live in a forest and in a nice environment, without the idea of killing them.
So now, come, say what you want about me justifying my actions :)
The 2nd organizing Zoom for the General Strike is on Feb 12. Registration now open🌸
If it's about individual why then you ( and actually mostly that girl ) put a label on people?
Why an argument about something which is in general terms becomes personal and about how it is my diet?
If no vegan would argue about that, then why, saying anarchist must be vegan otherwise it is oppression of the animals, a correct thing to do? I though that in anarchism every community would make its own rules based on the needs of the community, so the need of a label and a restriction at all?
Do you want to make it personal? Okay, well here some information so you can accuse of whatever you want:
When I used to live in my native country I used to spearfish. The only meat I was eating was from the fishes I was catching. I was also picking up plastic and trash other people were producing and throwing in the ocean.To catch fishes you have to go 20 meter deep and you have to hold your breath for 2 minutes most of the time. It is very very dangerous and many people die because of that. I see the creatures die because of my hands. I do it as humanly possible and try to make them suffer the less I can. Most of the time they die instantly. I am not in my environment, I am not using an unfair advantage and I am risking my own life. You also have quite a connection with those creatures because you are taking them out and it is not an easy. I think that if most people had to do that, probably they would eat less meat and be more respectful of animals. When you see it in the store wrapped in plastic it is not the same. You are not respecting the animal.
Do you want to know my plans for my future?When I will have enough resources I will move to a cheap countryside, my dream is to take land and restore it and make it forest, make the animals thrive there and restore the environment, I would also love to grow food and give it to my family and the eccess sell it or give it away according to what is possible. I'd also like to give animals a chance to live in a forest and in a nice environment, without the idea of killing them.
So now, come, say what you want about me justifying my actions :)
"You don't have to eat cherries, you know"
I don't, I hate cherries, that was just an example on price of fruit in the north.
"You ought to be eating fruits and veggies anyway"
Thanks, Uncle Redditor, I never learned that ever in my whole entire several decades of life, thanks so much for explaining this to me, I learned so much today! /s
As I already explained to you, such things just aren't affordable or accessible to everyone. If I could afford them, I would, but I can't, so I don't.
If you're truly actually concerned about my fruit/veggie intake (instead of just being a condescending ass for its own sake), then feel free to give me some money, so I can afford to buy them. Dm me for my mutual aid links.
"You can easily form cheap... meals... actually turns out cheaper."
Maybe where you live, and it must be nice to have that luxury! That's not the case for everyone. In fly-in Arctic communities, it's cheaper to hunt a moose and feed a whole family for a winter than but expensive luxury foods flown up from down south. (More anarchist, too, given how it's not capitalism and giving money to the billionaire grocery store owners.)
Here's some links on food prices in the north; it's just not actually cheaper to import tofu or whatever compared to raising chickens or hunting deer or fishing.
https://www-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.businessinsider.com/food-prices-high-northern-canada-2017-9?amp=&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16757182375025&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessinsider.com%2Ffood-prices-high-northern-canada-2017-9
https://globalnews-ca.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/globalnews.ca/news/9035232/inflation-crisis-food-prices-northern-canada/amp/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16757182375025&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fglobalnews.ca%2Fnews%2F9035232%2Finflation-crisis-food-prices-northern-canada%2F
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/nunavut-food-price-survey-2016-1.3650637
wow based alert
Register for the Zoom here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZwkcO6hpjooGtP-ozFaLFK0wRTvAhsZcF3F The topic is metrics & mobilization. See you there 🤙
A black and white photo of a smart phone screen.
It says:
Let’s talk about the General Strike 2nd Meeting
Feb 12, 2023 4PM EST/1PM PST
Register for the zoom now at
https://tinyurl.com/GeneralStrikeFeb12
Join us to help organize a mass US labor strike to bring power to the people not capitalists.
Wow one look at your profile and you’re literally obsessed with a young woman who you also refer to as a “thot.” And do you miss her braces because they make her seem younger? Yuck. You’re pretty gross if I’m being honest. I’m not sure if pornsick can be excused away on Indigenous grounds.
Wow one look at your profile and you’re literally obsessed with a young woman who you also refer to as a “thot.” And do you miss her braces because they make her seem younger? Yuck. You’re pretty gross if I’m being honest. I’m not sure if pornsick can be excused away on Indigenous grounds.
Your questions were not made in good faith. You made assumptions about my statement when I never suggested an authoritative element to transitioning society to a plant-based diet. Jumping in to defend indigenous people living off the land who I never attacked, when i highly doubt you have any connection to that reality, is a red herring. And of course we all need food to live, but does that alone justify any actions against animals?Can the death of dogs, cats, apes, elephants, or dolphins be explained away with “I like the taste”? Or are only some animals worthy of moral consideration? How about eating a bean burrito or some pasta? From an animals’s perspective, there is no ethical way to kill them. They don’t want to die. History does not dictate modern morality. Survival situations don’t dictate modern morality. Collective behaviors don’t dictate modern morality. Remember when slavery was legal and acceptable? K*lling Jews? R*ping women? Anarchism is about imagining a better world, rooted in equality and compassion, and taking steps to make that world a reality. We can’t forget that we’re animals too, it’s not us and them. We all share this planet and we all suffer.
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It's not about my eating habits, you are being personal now. I often see you commenting everywhere, it seems you are generally angry at people with different ideas and that is not really nice and also you comment under other posts about arguments with others. First you say them sorry, and then you make fun of the situation with others. Once you are at the end of the discussion with them you judge them for engaging with porn. It's not fair and honest. That's also not very anarchist as you are trying to make others form an opinion about another individual
Are you sure I am the one that has to self-reflect? Don't worry about me, I doubt myself everyday about every idea I have. I am very open to discussion and I just present my ideas.
But if I have to do like you do, then...
I think it's not the best thought process and really arrogant to think that a community should feel less anarchist if it's unable to provide themselves with only vegan food. It's stupid because you don't consider the complexities of the world and all the differences people have. You don't consider the fact that a community may choose to live in a land where there is not enough food that can be grown by agricolture only, which cannot be sustained by others (who and why others are going to sustain them?)
There are ethical ways to end an animal life, it's much better to do it yourself instead of buying it from a supermarket in a plastic wrap.
Also morality is relative. You don't judge a human eating another human when adrift on a boat in the middle of the ocean for days and days, but you judge a community that may base a portion of their diet on animals.
I am not even justifying myself as I also said at the beginning "a part from my personal ideas i think this", since I have to explain this simple phrase it means that if I have to live in a land where I can produce all food from vegetables then I'd just have a vegan diet or vegetarian diet. I am not even justifying my eating habits what are you even talking about???
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It's not about my eating habits, you are being personal now. I often see you commenting everywhere, it seems you are generally angry at people with different ideas and that is not really nice and also you comment under other posts about arguments with others. First you say them sorry, and then you make fun of the situation with others. Once you are at the end of the discussion with them you judge them for engaging with porn. It's not fair and honest.
Are you sure I am the one that has to self-reflect? Don't worry about me, I doubt myself everyday about every idea I have. I am very open to discussion and I just present my ideas.
But if I have to do like you do, then...
I think it's not very intelligent and really arrogant to think that a community should feel less anarchist if it's unable to provide themselves with only vegan food. It's stupid because you don't consider the complexities of the world and all the differences people have. You don't consider the fact that a community may choose to live in a land where there is not enough food that can be grown by agricolture only, which cannot be sustained by others (who and why others are going to sustain them?)
There are ethical ways to end an animal life, it's much better to do it yourself instead of buying it from a supermarket in a plastic wrap.
Also morality is relative. You don't judge a human eating another human when adrift on a boat in the middle of the ocean for days and days, but you judge a community that may base a portion of their diet on animals.
I am not even justifying myself as I also said at the beginning "a part from my personal ideas i think this", since I have to explain this simple phrase it means that if I have to live in a land where I can produce all food from vegetables then I'd just have a vegan diet or vegetarian diet. I am not even justifying my eating habits what are you even talking about???
I want to share this with the people who helped me find my political views :3
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u/smallalyssa Oh, and I wanted to clarify, though it seems you got the point. It is prevalent, especially in online, leftist spaces, to accuse someone of being a fascist, if one has internalized feelings or ideas which are fascistic. This is not the case. Every one of us, even the most revolutionary souls, are produced by the material conditions we were born into, and molded by. Everyone has internalized fascism to some extent. What makes someone an anarchist or marxist is trying their hardest to recognize these, and work against them. But in order to do so, we have to have forgiveness for the stupidity of others, and especially the fallibility of ourselves. All I wanted to say is, don't feel bad for feeling bad.
I understand your wishes and they are fair. You're right the way we live is not sustainable. I'm sorry. It does make sense. This might sound obvious but you are also a part of nature, destroying yourself, and harming yourself, is another way to hurt nature. Even in the darkest times, there are always people doing good work. Like indigenous people. You are trying to survive in a world that wants to kill itself- that's pretty cool!
I see you're averse to therapy and that is your personal choice but I do think it helps. It will help you cope with the thoughts in your head. It will help you handle the dread and depression. It can't heal the world but it can teach you how to heal yourself.
I understand your wishes and they are fair. You're right the way we live is not sustainable. I'm sorry. It does make sense. This might sound obvious but you are also a part of nature, destroying yourself, and harming yourself, is another way to hurt nature. Even in the darkest times, there are always people doing good work. Like indigenous people. You are trying to survive in a world that wants to kill itself- that's pretty cool!
I see you're averse to therapy and that is your personal choice but I do think it helps. It will help you cope with the thoughts in your head. It will help you handle the dread and depression. It can't heal the world but it can teach you how to heal yourself.
The philosophy of Albert Camus really helped me in my own suicidal ideations. He ran in anarchist circles so you also have some reassurance he’s politically likeminded.
Man has this inherent desire and need to find meaning in life, but life is inherently meaningless. (You are one organism, on one planet, circling one star, in galaxy, in an infinite number of galaxies.) this to Camus is called “the absurd.” This desire in our consciousness to find meaning and purpose when ultimately we don’t matter. This naturally leads to despair. So what do we do?
Camus says we have three options when we become face to face with the absurd.
1. We could kill ourselves. This isn’t ideal or recommended though.
2. We could give ourselves entirely to a cause, organization, movement, or god. I imagine this is what you have done in the past with your anarchism or environmentalism. I know I did this a lot. To Camus though this is philosophical suicide. If we have already determined life is meaningless, lying to ourselves and saying we have purpose isn’t going to help. Which leads us to our last option.
3. Rebel against the absurd. You become so free that your very existence becomes an act of rebellion. Own everything you do as your decision. Acknowledge life is meaningless and go on living it anyway.
Camus uses the myth of Sisyphus as an analogy. He says he imagines Sisyphus is happy. If you’re unfamiliar with the myth Sisyphus is condemned by the gods to push a boulder up a mountain for eternity. When it reaches the summit it falls back down the mountain and he starts again.
Sisyphus in the myth KNOWS his entire existence is meaningless. He could let the weight of the boulder crush him in his despair. He does not. He could plead to the gods or worship them for eternity in the false hope his lot in life changes. He does not. What does he do? He pushes the boulder. At some point Sisyphus must have found joy in his task and his existence, because the stone keeps rolling.
Camus’ philosophy is all about accepting the absurdity of life, and trying to live a fulfilling happy life regardless of its absurdity. Only by accepting the existence of the absurd and then rebelling against it can we truly be free.
I hope this helps comrade. His writing has helped me a lot.
The philosophy of Albert Camus really helped me in my own suicidal ideations. He ran in anarchist circles so you also have some reassurance he’s politically likeminded.
Man has this inherent desire and need to find meaning in life, but life is inherently meaningless. (You are one organism, on one planet, circling one star, in galaxy, in an infinite number of galaxies.) this to Camus is called “the absurd.” This desire in our consciousness to find meaning and purpose when ultimately we don’t matter. This naturally leads to despair. So what do we do?
Camus says we have three options when we become face to face with the absurd.
1. We could kill ourselves. This isn’t ideal or recommended though.
2. We could give ourselves entirely to a cause, organization, movement, or god. I imagine this is what you have done in the past with your anarchism or environmentalism. I know I did this a lot. To Camus though this is philosophical suicide. If we have already determined life is meaningless, lying to ourselves and saying we have purpose isn’t going to help. Which leads us to our last option.
3. Rebel against the absurd. You become so free that your very existence becomes an act of rebellion. Own everything you do as your decision. Acknowledge life is meaningless and go on living it anyway.
Camus uses the myth of Sisyphus as an analogy. He says he imagines Sisyphus is happy. If you’re unfamiliar with the myth Sisyphus is condemned by the gods to push a boulder up a mountain for eternity. When it reaches the summit it falls back down the mountain and he starts again.
Sisyphus in the myth KNOWS his entire existence is meaningless. He could let the weight of the boulder crush him in his despair. He does not. He could plead to the gods or worship them for eternity in the false hope his lot in life changes. He does not. What does he do? He pushes the boulder. At some point Sisyphus must have found joy in his task and his existence, because the stone keeps rolling.
Camus’ philosophy is all about accepting the absurdity of life, and trying to live a fulfilling happy life regardless of its absurdity. Only by accepting the existence of the absurd and then rebelling against it can we truly be free.
I hope this helps comrade. His writing has helped me a lot.
> while white racist men who are heavily into toxic masculinity are weirdly intense about eating meat, that has more to do with veganism being a counter culture phenomenon than it being good and therefore hated by 'the bad people' by default.
Fash obsessing over meat is not weird at all. They overtly promote torturing and killing animals - including humans. It's basically a death cult. Of course dead flesh is central to them.
> while white racist men who are heavily into toxic masculinity are weirdly intense about eating meat, that has more to do with veganism being a counter culture phenomenon than it being good and therefore hated by 'the bad people' by default.
Fash obsessing over meat is not weird at all. They overtly promote torturing and killing animals - including humans. It's basically a death cult. Of course dead flesh is central to them.
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I would really love to learn how these types of things function cause man i really don’t want to be in this dumb system we have in place now :/
WTF???!!! This is BEYOND sick and psychotic!
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The only things that keep me going, despite being in a very similar place, are (1) spite against the systems that wish me dead and (2) reducing the net suffering in the world. Just making my stupid painful existence a net relief for other people and causes.
I don't have much else to offer, I'm sorry.
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People are idiots in general and have no idea how the system works. I just say it right back, don't like Biden and the liberals that run the US then leave. That gets them even more mad. If you try to explain the cost and process of immigration they just stare at you and then call you a liar.
Register for the Zoom here: https://us06web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZwkcO6hpjooGtP-ozFaLFK0wRTvAhsZcF3F The topic is metrics & mobilization. See you there 🤙
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That's the rich people option. Or very skilled.
Like I'm sorry other countries don't just hand out visas and stuff
And it's also a terribly short sighted thing to say. I'm from a country that produces A LOT of highly skilled engineers. You know what? The neighboring country pays them three times what they're making here at entry level. And now the same fucktards who refuse any legislation to force hikes in salaries, who defund every public service (except the police, because you need the guard dogs), these people are bitching about the brain drain. Oh and then they say the labor market needs to be more competitive, so reduce taxation on private businesses, thus reduce tax income for the State, thus defund public services even more.
The country I'm from is France. And I tell every French engineer they should go to Germany and say fuck to this country that underpays them and under-utilizes them (most of them are just filling Excel spreadsheets, instead of like.. Engineering shit)
It's not sustainable. Just to meet *current* US beef demand via grass-fed cattle, as in, not counting dairy cows, pigs, chickens, whatever, we would have to turn every square inch of North America, from the Rockies to the Great Lakes to the Chihuahua desert to the New York metropolis, into grassland, all the way to the Darian Gap in Panama. All just to meet current demand for a single country for the flesh of a single animal. When non-vegans talk about the environmental impact animal agriculture has, they always hand-wave it with statements about "oh we can just have Meatless Mondays and get rid of industrialized animal agriculture" which ignores the fact that the reason we have industrialized animal agriculture is because land and resource wise it is an order of magnitude more efficient than the alternative mode of production. There is simply no room for animal agriculture basically at all period when we're talking 8-10 billion human beings and also having a planet capable of sustaining life.
Also, as for the "reducing meat consumption" meme... a better example of what would be required to be "environmentally sustainable" would be that the average human being can have something like a quarter pound of beef every three months, not skipping out on eating meat for 1/7 days a week.
This is of course not even getting into the ethical ramifications of animal agriculture, which, to put it mildly, is a holocaust beyond a holocaust of trillions of sentient beings every single year that dwarfs every other injustice human beings produce just by the sheer scale of it alone. If you believe in ending all unjust hierarchies, you should be vegan. Killing and exploiting non-human animals is hierarchical and not in line with anarchism at all.
Nirvana fallacy isn't great either. Maybe let's not go all : well it involves killing animals anyway, so let's kill as many as possible and the ones with the most developped central system, yolo.
1312 UWU
The group posted the following summary of their actions over the last month:
> What did we do in January?
> In January, with your help, we:
> ✅ collected 200 thousand rubles (€2614) to pay for the work of a lawyer in court for Anton Zhuchkov;
> ✅ collected 75,000 rubles (€980 )to pay for Mikhail Balabanov's lawyer;
> ✅ collected 120 thousand rubles (€1567) for Ivan Kudryashov — now he also has a reliable lawyer;
> ✅ collected 230 thousand rubles (€3006) to pay a lawyer during the trial for Roman Nasryev;
> ✅ helped relatives of Vladimir Sergeev to find missing 60 thousand rubles (€784), which were missing out, to pay a lawyer in court;
> ✅ collected 100 of the required 380 thousand rubles (€1307 out of €4967 required) to pay for a lawyer for Ruslan Zinin.
> If we add up all these figures, we get 785 thousand rubles (€10262), which seemed incredible to us a few months ago. Thanks to these funds, five people are provided with legal protection. And we never get tired of saying that a lawyer for our clients is not only a lawyer, but sometimes the only connection with the outside world, protection from lawlessness and moral support. Some of the prisoners are in solitary confinement and they are not allowed to visit their relatives, the only person they see besides law enforcement officers is a lawyer.
> Also in January Solidarity Zone:
> ✅ organized an initial visit and questioning by lawyers of four prisoners accused of anti-war activities; based on the position of the prisoners, took possible steps to provide support.
> We spent 57 thousand rubles (€745) for these needs.
> And, of course, we continued to support in every possible way the 11 prisoners, support of whom we took upon ourselves. In addition to paying their lawyers, we wrote letters, sent packages, transferred money to their support accounts, and spread the word about each case.
> We are currently supporting:
> 🔥🔥 Anton Zhuchkov and Vladimir Sergeev, who are accused of preparing for a terrorist act due to an attempted political suicide in protest against the war
> 🔥 Vladimir Zolotarev, who is accused of attempted terrorist attack due to the arson of the building of the National Guard, which is involved in the invasion and suppression of protests
> 🔥 Igor Paskar, who, as a sign of solidarity with the people of Ukraine, threw a Moltov cocktail into the FSB building. Now he is being tried by a military court as a terrorist
> 🔥 Ruslan Zinin, who shot at the military commissar who sent dozens of people to slaughter
> 🔥 Kirill Butylin, the first arsonist of military registration and enlistment offices. He, like many others, is now accused of terrorism.
> 🔥 Andrey Bogdanov, a pensioner who openly protested against the war and is now accused of setting fire to a military enlistment office
> 🔥 Oleg Vazhdaev, an arsonist of the military enlistment office from the South of Russia
> 🔥 Roman Nasryev, who, with a friend, set fire to the administration and a branch of the military registration and enlistment office in the Urals. On terrorism charges, he faces 15 years to life in prison.
> 🔥Ivan Kudryashov, an anti-war activist from Tver, who was tortured by the FSB and accused of setting fire to the military registration and enlistment office
> 🔥 Mikhail Balabanov, a resident of Tatarstan, who was hiding from mobilization and was accused of intending to burn down the military enlistment office
> Our physical resources were running out, and we started a Patreon to somehow compensate for our volunteer (free) work. All donations received through Patreon, we plan to share equally among the participants.
> Thank you for being with us all this time! Thank you for your donations, reposts and kind words in the comments and messages to the money transfers!
> Let no one be left alone!
The solidarity zone can be found/contacted on telegram via their channel "solidarity_zone"
Contract law.,Social contract, implied consent, Thomas hobbes.
You can just leave, but it involves farming your own food and understanding your rights responsibilities and obligations and won't stop your exploitation if you don't make efforts to disassemble the corrupt institution positioning itself on front of resources.
I started with the protocols of the elders of zion, contract law, studied history,made my own declarations and then started homesteading. We've got more rights than to the land than any corporation or goverment, you've just got to be able demonstrate corruption is present and outline your sovereign agency over your life or you'll get taken for a ride.Its all just a means to an end, if its not being provided you are within your rights to TAKE what you need, or recompensate your investments under natural law, that's the social contract.
[tw] struggling with s*icide ideation as an anarchist\[major trigger warning about s\*icide, major!! i hope this is ok to post about!\]
hey everyone,
for the past many, many, many.. months, i have been experiencing suicidal ideation on almost an every-single-fcking-second basis. i am more specifically an eco/green-anarchist; i care so much for the earth that it makes me feel physically sick and dizzy. it makes me feel sick, guilty, powerless, and hopeless to be alive and contribute towards the current society that we live in. a society that disregards and monetises everything that is innate and beautiful, and it tears me apart. the water i drink, the food i eat, the clothing i wear, the hobbies i love, everything i do - all of them are in some form damaging my home, the thing that brought me to life. i feel as though i am betraying the earth with my every action. even having a shower, brushing my teeth, turning on a light, buying food, purchasing the necessities for my hobbies - all of it makes me feel immense guilt that i continue to carry, my chest is so heavy always. i try to use such minimal power, water, food, everything - but it still does not feel like enough, it feels like it simply does not balance or outweigh everything else. fuck, man. i do not know how people can live like this for so long. i cannot imagine it
i know that if i die, my body will go towards growing a tree, flowers, feeding decomposers; contributing towards something that works to keep the earth going, not towards killing everything.
i wish i could go and live out in the woods, grow my own food, contribute to my community, learn to live off solely the land, but i do not even know if that is realistic or possible, it feels like fantasy and out of reach due to legalities (that i wish i did not need to even consider) and everything else.
perhaps it sounds so irrational, but it makes sense to me. my existence contributes towards damaging the earth. does anyone else struggle with these thoughts and feelings that you cannot shake because you know they make sense? i do not have a community around me physically that i can talk to, so if you guys could perhaps lend me the time to tell me your thoughts and methods of coping, i would be so much beyond appreciative. i am really struggling, my comrades. i hope you see where i am coming from, i would appreciate some understanding and acknowledgement from you guys. i sometimes feel like i am crazy for having these thoughts. thank you
​
edit: i think this post is really bringing together a lot of people, and i think that is so important! i already feel so much better and so seen. thank you guys. i really hope you are well and i am so happy we can come together like this!
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Return of the Wobblies
Looks like ferngully. That's Tim Curry's character.
[tw] struggling with s*icide ideation as an anarchist\[major trigger warning about s\*icide, major!! i hope this is ok to post about!\]
hey everyone,
for the past many, many, many.. months, i have been experiencing suicidal ideation on almost an every-single-fcking-second basis. i am more specifically an eco/green-anarchist; i care so much for the earth that it makes me feel physically sick and dizzy. it makes me feel sick, guilty, powerless, and hopeless to be alive and contribute towards the current society that we live in. a society that disregards and monetises everything that is innate and beautiful, and it tears me apart. the water i drink, the food i eat, the clothing i wear, the hobbies i love, everything i do - all of them are in some form damaging my home, the thing that brought me to life. i feel as though i am betraying the earth with my every action. even having a shower, brushing my teeth, turning on a light, buying food, purchasing the necessities for my hobbies - all of it makes me feel immense guilt that i continue to carry, my chest is so heavy always. i try to use such minimal power, water, food, everything - but it still does not feel like enough, it feels like it simply does not balance or outweigh everything else. fuck, man. i do not know how people can live like this for so long. i cannot imagine it
i know that if i die, my body will go towards growing a tree, flowers, feeding decomposers; contributing towards something that works to keep the earth going, not towards killing everything.
i wish i could go and live out in the woods, grow my own food, contribute to my community, learn to live off solely the land, but i do not even know if that is realistic or possible, it feels like fantasy and out of reach due to legalities (that i wish i did not need to even consider) and everything else.
perhaps it sounds so irrational, but it makes sense to me. my existence contributes towards damaging the earth. does anyone else struggle with these thoughts and feelings that you cannot shake because you know they make sense? i do not have a community around me physically that i can talk to, so if you guys could perhaps lend me the time to tell me your thoughts and methods of coping, i would be so much beyond appreciative. i am really struggling, my comrades. i hope you see where i am coming from, i would appreciate some understanding and acknowledgement from you guys. i sometimes feel like i am crazy for having these thoughts. thank you
​
edit: i think this post is really bringing together a lot of people, and i think that is so important! i already feel so much better and so seen. thank you guys. i really hope you are well and i am so happy we can come together like this!
Free grazing, grass fed and all that nonsense is probably the least sustainable form of animal agriculture from a supply standpoint.
Not to mention you're still killing innocent creatures for your pleasure
Free grazing, grass fed and all that nonsense is probably the least sustainable form of animal agriculture from a supply standpoint.
Not to mention you're still killing innocent creatures for your pleasure
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The group posted the following summary of their actions over the last month:
> What did we do in January?
> In January, with your help, we:
> ✅ collected 200 thousand rubles (€2614) to pay for the work of a lawyer in court for Anton Zhuchkov;
> ✅ collected 75,000 rubles (€980 )to pay for Mikhail Balabanov's lawyer;
> ✅ collected 120 thousand rubles (€1567) for Ivan Kudryashov — now he also has a reliable lawyer;
> ✅ collected 230 thousand rubles (€3006) to pay a lawyer during the trial for Roman Nasryev;
> ✅ helped relatives of Vladimir Sergeev to find missing 60 thousand rubles (€784), which were missing out, to pay a lawyer in court;
> ✅ collected 100 of the required 380 thousand rubles (€1307 out of €4967 required) to pay for a lawyer for Ruslan Zinin.
> If we add up all these figures, we get 785 thousand rubles (€10262), which seemed incredible to us a few months ago. Thanks to these funds, five people are provided with legal protection. And we never get tired of saying that a lawyer for our clients is not only a lawyer, but sometimes the only connection with the outside world, protection from lawlessness and moral support. Some of the prisoners are in solitary confinement and they are not allowed to visit their relatives, the only person they see besides law enforcement officers is a lawyer.
> Also in January Solidarity Zone:
> ✅ organized an initial visit and questioning by lawyers of four prisoners accused of anti-war activities; based on the position of the prisoners, took possible steps to provide support.
> We spent 57 thousand rubles (€745) for these needs.
> And, of course, we continued to support in every possible way the 11 prisoners, support of whom we took upon ourselves. In addition to paying their lawyers, we wrote letters, sent packages, transferred money to their support accounts, and spread the word about each case.
> We are currently supporting:
> 🔥🔥 Anton Zhuchkov and Vladimir Sergeev, who are accused of preparing for a terrorist act due to an attempted political suicide in protest against the war
> 🔥 Vladimir Zolotarev, who is accused of attempted terrorist attack due to the arson of the building of the National Guard, which is involved in the invasion and suppression of protests
> 🔥 Igor Paskar, who, as a sign of solidarity with the people of Ukraine, threw a Moltov cocktail into the FSB building. Now he is being tried by a military court as a terrorist
> 🔥 Ruslan Zinin, who shot at the military commissar who sent dozens of people to slaughter
> 🔥 Kirill Butylin, the first arsonist of military registration and enlistment offices. He, like many others, is now accused of terrorism.
> 🔥 Andrey Bogdanov, a pensioner who openly protested against the war and is now accused of setting fire to a military enlistment office
> 🔥 Oleg Vazhdaev, an arsonist of the military enlistment office from the South of Russia
> 🔥 Roman Nasryev, who, with a friend, set fire to the administration and a branch of the military registration and enlistment office in the Urals. On terrorism charges, he faces 15 years to life in prison.
> 🔥Ivan Kudryashov, an anti-war activist from Tver, who was tortured by the FSB and accused of setting fire to the military registration and enlistment office
> 🔥 Mikhail Balabanov, a resident of Tatarstan, who was hiding from mobilization and was accused of intending to burn down the military enlistment office
> Our physical resources were running out, and we started a Patreon to somehow compensate for our volunteer (free) work. All donations received through Patreon, we plan to share equally among the participants.
> Thank you for being with us all this time! Thank you for your donations, reposts and kind words in the comments and messages to the money transfers!
> Let no one be left alone!
The solidarity zone can be found/contacted on telegram via their channel "solidarity_zone"
The group posted the following summary of their actions over the last month:
> What did we do in January?
> In January, with your help, we:
> ✅ collected 200 thousand rubles (€2614) to pay for the work of a lawyer in court for Anton Zhuchkov;
> ✅ collected 75,000 rubles (€980 )to pay for Mikhail Balabanov's lawyer;
> ✅ collected 120 thousand rubles (€1567) for Ivan Kudryashov — now he also has a reliable lawyer;
> ✅ collected 230 thousand rubles (€3006) to pay a lawyer during the trial for Roman Nasryev;
> ✅ helped relatives of Vladimir Sergeev to find missing 60 thousand rubles (€784), which were missing out, to pay a lawyer in court;
> ✅ collected 100 of the required 380 thousand rubles (€1307 out of €4967 required) to pay for a lawyer for Ruslan Zinin.
> If we add up all these figures, we get 785 thousand rubles (€10262), which seemed incredible to us a few months ago. Thanks to these funds, five people are provided with legal protection. And we never get tired of saying that a lawyer for our clients is not only a lawyer, but sometimes the only connection with the outside world, protection from lawlessness and moral support. Some of the prisoners are in solitary confinement and they are not allowed to visit their relatives, the only person they see besides law enforcement officers is a lawyer.
> Also in January Solidarity Zone:
> ✅ organized an initial visit and questioning by lawyers of four prisoners accused of anti-war activities; based on the position of the prisoners, took possible steps to provide support.
> We spent 57 thousand rubles (€745) for these needs.
> And, of course, we continued to support in every possible way the 11 prisoners, support of whom we took upon ourselves. In addition to paying their lawyers, we wrote letters, sent packages, transferred money to their support accounts, and spread the word about each case.
> We are currently supporting:
> 🔥🔥 Anton Zhuchkov and Vladimir Sergeev, who are accused of preparing for a terrorist act due to an attempted political suicide in protest against the war
> 🔥 Vladimir Zolotarev, who is accused of attempted terrorist attack due to the arson of the building of the National Guard, which is involved in the invasion and suppression of protests
> 🔥 Igor Paskar, who, as a sign of solidarity with the people of Ukraine, threw a Moltov cocktail into the FSB building. Now he is being tried by a military court as a terrorist
> 🔥 Ruslan Zinin, who shot at the military commissar who sent dozens of people to slaughter
> 🔥 Kirill Butylin, the first arsonist of military registration and enlistment offices. He, like many others, is now accused of terrorism.
> 🔥 Andrey Bogdanov, a pensioner who openly protested against the war and is now accused of setting fire to a military enlistment office
> 🔥 Oleg Vazhdaev, an arsonist of the military enlistment office from the South of Russia
> 🔥 Roman Nasryev, who, with a friend, set fire to the administration and a branch of the military registration and enlistment office in the Urals. On terrorism charges, he faces 15 years to life in prison.
> 🔥Ivan Kudryashov, an anti-war activist from Tver, who was tortured by the FSB and accused of setting fire to the military registration and enlistment office
> 🔥 Mikhail Balabanov, a resident of Tatarstan, who was hiding from mobilization and was accused of intending to burn down the military enlistment office
> Our physical resources were running out, and we started a Patreon to somehow compensate for our volunteer (free) work. All donations received through Patreon, we plan to share equally among the participants.
> Thank you for being with us all this time! Thank you for your donations, reposts and kind words in the comments and messages to the money transfers!
> Let no one be left alone!
The solidarity zone can be found/contacted on telegram via their channel "solidarity_zone"
It's not sustainable. Just to meet *current* US beef demand via grass-fed cattle, as in, not counting dairy cows, pigs, chickens, whatever, we would have to turn every square inch of North America, from the Rockies to the Great Lakes to the Chihuahua desert to the New York metropolis, into grassland, all the way to the Darian Gap in Panama. All just to meet current demand for a single country for the flesh of a single animal. When non-vegans talk about the environmental impact animal agriculture has, they always hand-wave it with statements about "oh we can just have Meatless Mondays and get rid of industrialized animal agriculture" which ignores the fact that the reason we have industrialized animal agriculture is because land and resource wise it is an order of magnitude more efficient than the alternative mode of production. There is simply no room for animal agriculture basically at all period when we're talking 8-10 billion human beings and also having a planet capable of sustaining life.
Also, as for the "reducing meat consumption" meme... a better example of what would be required to be "environmentally sustainable" would be that the average human being can have something like a quarter pound of beef every three months, not skipping out on eating meat for 1/7 days a week.
This is of course not even getting into the ethical ramifications of animal agriculture, which, to put it mildly, is a holocaust beyond a holocaust of trillions of sentient beings every single year that dwarfs every other injustice human beings produce just by the sheer scale of it alone. If you believe in ending all unjust hierarchies, you should be vegan. Killing and exploiting non-human animals is hierarchical and not in line with anarchism at all.
Hey there, u/Capybara1994. Please direct any requests for mutual aid, donations, etc. to our weekly [Mutual Aid Monday threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/search/?q=%22mutual+aid+monday%22&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new).
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Advice on MinimalismTends to be a commonality between Anarchists following minimalistic principles. I mean so in terms of “impulse buy impulse buy impulse buy, got to buy this years phone of the exact same one I already own, same thing with this car it will be fun” besides all of the capitalistic aspects of this issue and the issue of money and income inequality and just money being a root of evil, how do I work on this? Or what steps are suggested? I am lucky enough that while this bullshit stands I am pretty financially secure. Nothing spectacular but I would like to not impulse buy I would like to live in simplest means where I am happy but also secure and maybe even be able to donate time and funds to other people or movements etc etc. like just the basic ass shit I need. I just impulse buy a lot, I waste money on dumbass stuff. I know that can be counter intuitive to things I’d like to REALLY get into while not being stingy just meet my needs and ya kno a little extra not too much. Like instead of driving a new /newer car drive a 30year old car that still drives fine and is all rusted up & not need to have the fanciest appliances and all that fukn junk. Materialism is really just terrible and a terrible quality I believe personally is if someone is extremely materialistic, there is difference between someone being a person who for example love language is gift giving getting their favorite CD or taken out to lunch and the difference to someone who hoards money and has 13 cars in their driveway and brags about having this signed baseball card they bought for 5million dollars so they could have it behind some glass to look at.
BTW self concours about it and while it is a lot I’m talking generally 90,000ish a year and depending on overtime and holiday pay I can hit 100,000K but I try to not do any of that shit spend time with family and friends
1312 UWU
Nirvana fallacy isn't great either. Maybe let's not go all : well it involves killing animals anyway, so let's kill as many as possible and the ones with the most developped central system, yolo.
Mutual Aid MondayHave a mutual aid project you'd like to promote? In need of some aid yourself? Let us know.
---
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Mutual Aid MondayHave a mutual aid project you'd like to promote? In need of some aid yourself? Let us know.
---
^Please ^note ^that ^r/Anarchism ^moderators ^cannot ^individually ^verify ^or ^vet ^mutual ^aid ^requests
Friday Free TalkWeekly open discussion thread
they are more like omg killing people are so fun come and join us💀💀
you mean the place that criticizes the use of “terminally online” in their rules but uses it in their group description? sounds like a great organizing space 🙄
they are more like omg killing people are so fun come and join us💀💀
Personally I find farming far more horrible than hunting. One of them is a breach of trust, it seems inherently disrespectful to life and morally wrong.
Hunting just morally seems a lot more honest.
I'm going to use dogs because our evaluation of life is based off of culture rather than actual emotions or intelligence.
It's one thing too go out into the world and kill a pack of dogs.
It's another thing to raise puppies by hand, letting them grow up with you, trust you, and then one day turning on them.
For like, 3000 calories. Your sacrificing a life, more than that, the trust of an animal built up over it's entire life, for the equivalent of 5 cans of pinto beans.
That just seems evil too me, sorry.
Like, it's just disgusting.
Hi, u/selahcarter. Just a friendly reminder that phrases like "terminally online" and "touch grass" are ableist and help to perpetuate the harmful idea that one's value and contribution to anarchism and anarchist praxis is centered solely on "meatspace" interactions. We recognize that in-person organizing is important, and we encourage it, but our disabled comrades are valuable, as are their contributions regardless of their ability to go outside.
We highly recommend [this video](https://youtube.com/watch?v=iGFSJ3gv1kY) ([watch on Invidious](https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=iGFSJ3gv1kY)) for further explanation.
This may also be a great time for you to take a moment to review our [Anti-Oppression Policy](https://reddit.com/r/anarchism/wiki/aop) to see how and why we try create and maintain a safe space for marginalized people to hang out without seeing mirrors of their oppression and language used to degrade them based on their marginalized identities.
At this time, no moderation action is being taken, but please be aware that in the future, the bot will start to remove comments that contain the above phrases in line with the removal of other ableist content on this sub. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation!
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I thought yal hate Russell because he isn't a confirming lefty like y'all?
But because it doesn't fit the white supremacy narrative, no burned down cities. Or it's still winter, little pre mature for "peaceful protest" season.
And then? Build your Chaztopia? As a whole, those kids wouldn't last a week on bare essentials before eating each other. Have a real plan before barking regurgitated trash please. You're embarrassing
Go live anywhere else where you're a minority. Thoughts and prayers to you. Wait, you have no religion except to Lord Marx....well, enjoy your slow demise then
You'll taste delicious at least
Ummm sure kiddos. But who's gonna keep your video games relivant? And don't you realize who produces hot pockets? Or wait, who makes your electronics you enjoy to post nonsensical b/s online? I pray for the emp so we can start cleaning house
I hear hand-cycling is great - I haven't actually looked into it all that much, but I got injured just before COVID so spent most of my time indoors up until recently.
Absolutely go for it though, I honestly think adaptive sports have become super important to me and I'd like to do my bit to make sure anyone interested at least gives it a shot :)
And no bother!
I hear hand-cycling is great - I haven't actually looked into it all that much, but I got injured just before COVID so spent most of my time indoors up until recently.
Absolutely go for it though, I honestly think adaptive sports have become super important to me and I'd like to do my bit to make sure anyone interested at least gives it a shot :)
And no bother!
1. Slaughtering a animal for its meat is exploitation, raising it and fatening it for consumption is coersion. It is a living being. Doing so is against anarchist priniples, and that is fine, but is it good? No.
2. Inequalities happen al the time and alot of them are totaly fine. Trains and busses are inequal and that is good. What we want is to meet the needs and wants of eatchother in a noncoersive manner. Gifting the subsistance farmers food is not coersion, it lifts them up and empowers them. And i am werry shure for the vast majority of the farmers who are doing husbendry can find vegan alternatives they are verry inventive. ...
3. i have to eat food, respond later.
>If you can, sure, but it's not actually an option for everyone.
I mean if you look at the definition provided by the Vegan Society, it technically is an option for everyone.
>Where I live, for example, there are food deserts. Food has to be trucked up for several days from the south, and that makes it quite expensive.
Yes, and if we get rid of capitalism for a society based on mutual aid, there will undoubtedly be vegans who'd happily drive all the way up in order to facilitate the people there not having to rely on killing and exploiting animals. Not to mention money won't be a problem if there is no money.
>Not to mention the emissions, and the exacerbation of the climate crisis as a result.
>
>Furthermore, there are fly-in communities, where that food has to be flown in, and again, that's massive emissions, which harms the environment.
Well that's a bit redundant because veganism isn't about the environment. I don't accept the idea of slaughtering and abusing animals to save a bit on carbon emissions. There are various other ways we can reduce it without relying on exploitation.
>Where I live, Indigenous folks hunted and fished sustainably for millennia. Winters here are more than half the year, pur growing season is really, really short, and it's not like there's tons of farmland and orchards, etc up here in the Arctic, lol.
In the same vein as before, I don't accept the idea that we should exploit animals in the name of sustainability. You're completely missing the point of veganism.
>Many folks feed their families and communities with hunting and fishing, so people don't go hungry in the long, cold, dark winter.
>
>If people can eat the vegan food, great, good for them, glad they're having a food, they need food to live.
>
>If people can eat non-vegan food, great, good for them, glad they're having a food, they need food to live.
>
>What's most important is that folks are getting what they need to live.
Yes and for the most part, people don't need animal products. Tell me please, do the trucks that bring food up not bring up beans, rice, oats, bread, pasta, other gains, veggies and fruits? What's your excuse?
>the idea that raising and eating animals is inherently cruel tends to be very centered on european cultures and ignore millenia of indegenous tradition.
The needless killing of animals is inherently cruel. The only excuse that indigenous people have is that often their killing wasn't needless; it was a necessity to survive.
>its also abelist as it assumes everyone can eat a vegan diet which is not true (some people have texture aversions, some people have food allergies, some people have disabilities that make it so they only have about 10 safe foods they can eat, etc).
The last one is a valid excuse, but the two before that aren't. Would you accept someone assaulting others because they have a condition where they need to hear the sounds of people screaming? Texture aversions is a pathetic excuse of abuse, and so are often food allergies. Veganism doesn't force you to eat certain foods, so be vegan and avoid the other foods you can't eat.
>it also ignores the natural role humans have in the ecosystem as well. and treating it as just cruetly ignores the benefits animals can get from it if theyre managed ethically like healthcare and consistent access to high quality food.
Who gives a shit if it's natural? Cruelty is cruelty, it doesn't matter if you give them a biscuit beforehand.
Is it ["This nonviolent stuff'll get you killed"](https://files.libcom.org/files/2022-04/Charles-Cobb-This-Nonviolent-Stuffll-Get-You-Killed.pdf)?
Why this sub does not have an online group?I believe that, to create an anarchist society, we need to organize and spread libertarian socialist ideas to those who dont understand what anarchism is. Then, shouldn't we begin that by being together, ourselves? I understand that we need to organize in real life, of course. But that does not mean we don't have a good opportunity of knowing other anarchists online. This subreddit, for example, can unite anarchists from the whole world, can be a good way of mixing different ideas together and then thinking about ways to spread them. What is the point of all these posts, on this subreddit, if we end our days separated from each other? Could not we share, i don't know, a discord server? Any online app that we can talk in real time? Could not we talk more, planning things together and learning with each other? We have an opportunity here to know other anarchists, to make good connections with amazing people and discover how to make people realize how good society can be!
But there is not any option of doing so on the sub bar, no groups, no ways to get together. We need to do so, don't we? Why are we separated? I have seen some people say "it's not safe to do so, it will be seen by cops", well, fuck them? Why do you even care? What are you so scared of? Will you deny your own ideas because someone will try to stop you from having them? We should stop being scared of what bad things can happen and start making good things happen instead
Is it ["This nonviolent stuff'll get you killed"](https://files.libcom.org/files/2022-04/Charles-Cobb-This-Nonviolent-Stuffll-Get-You-Killed.pdf)?
Fair point. There are more killing tools than I realised.
1. The problem with killing animals is they have the ability to suffer, so needlessly harming them is wrong. They have the same capacities to not want to be slaughtered for food as you would not want that to happen to you.
2. Veganism isn't about saving the world. It's about animal liberation.
3. Anarchist are allowed to use violence and force in the name of liberation others. If you are tolerant of intolerance, you are siding with the intolerant. I'm not the source of force and violence, you are. And every person has the right to defend the animals by violent means if necessary. Nevertheless what force have I used? You carnists always like to frame a confronting conversation as force. To be frank, if I could blow up a slaughterhouse, or force you to be vegan, I would. But alas I can't.
My qualms are with killing, violence, and exploitation. The animals we share this planet with are sentient and have just as much of a right to life as us. There’s no way to ethically take the life of someone who does not want to die. And although you feel that vegans impose their beliefs on you, we are imposing our beliefs on animals when we slit their throats to eat their bodies. If you have an objection to killing dogs, cats, dolphins, or elephants, then you already know what’s wrong, you’ve just been indoctrinated by societal norms (like the rest of us) that see cows, pigs, chickens, fish, and deer as quasi-conscious beings that are indifferent to their own deaths. If anarchism is about an advanced society that values peace, egalitarianism, compassion, rational thought, environmental sustainability, etc., then the mass butcher of other creatures does not fit within that framework. The ethics of killing are only blurred in life-or-death/survival scenarios, and when we have an abundance of plant foods to eat then the slaughter of animals for food is done only for pleasure and tradition. There are no magical nutrients in animal flesh that we cannot get from plants; b12 used to come from soil and water and is now supplemented in animals, and omega 3s come from algae that fish eat or is supplemented as well. There are billions on the planet proving that a plant based diet is sustainable and healthy. Killing animals for their flesh/hides when unnecessary for survival, regardless of the method of butcher or circumstances of their upbringing, is exploitative of that being. Which anarchism seeks to actively oppose as a cornerstone of the philosophy.
Killing and eating an animal is one of the most authoritarian things that is done on a regular basis. The problem here is that you don't recognize the animal's sentience and personhood. Lands not useful for farming should and can be re-wilded while still maintaining proper nutrition for the entire population of humans.
Ever killed an animal?
I do think it's problematic. It seems like a whole load of people fantasising about ending someone's life in self defence. Or an imaginary blaze of glory against a load of agents of the state. People are so easy to control and keep pacified when they believe they somehow hold the ultimate upper hand because they own a killing machine.
Also, surely the powers that be only have to halt the supply of ammunition into the country and then send in the troops... Much better to learn a martial art, get very fit and healthy if possible. And stop fantasising about killing people. Carry a non-lethal weapon.
Read any Codex about the Mexica people. Read the Chronicles of Michoacán (one of the first manuscripts ever written in the Americas). They both state that the two most powerful peoples in Mexico (before the Spanish came and committed genocide) ate meat and plants
Nature is fucking brutal. Parents killing their children and eachother are part of nature. R*pe is part of nature. Survival of the fittest is part of nature. We have grown past these things, we do not need them, we do not want them. Why would the mass killing of living things that we do not need to eat be seen as any different
My people are the P'urhépecha. Their values were of not starving. Also, their values also involved not caring about what vegans in the 21st century had to think about when they made their dietary choices. Read the Chronicles of Michoacán if you need an original reference. It's one of the oldest manuscripts written in the Americas and has details about how my ancestors were already eating fish, rabbits, deer, and a diverse amount of birds in a sustainable way. They were nomadic at first, and when they transitioned to sedentary settlement, they were able to regulate fishing and hunting as well as logging. This meant that they never ran out of a food source and this is what I mean: it was sustainable and widely acceptable across many Natives that my ancestors interacted with. Is your goal to be a devil's advocate or to actually understand me? 😂 because you can literally Google what Natives were eating before Europeans got to this continent. You don't need to pretend like I'm the Western one just because you want to project veganism as a real struggle 🤣🤣 kinda sad. There are Natives in parts of the world who aren't privileged enough to even be vegan. Get your Western ass out of my notifications
I started using a chair later in life but I’ve had mobility problems my whole life so I’ve never done much fun stuff. But I keep threatening my spouse that I’m gonna take my chair to a skate park because it looks so fucking fun.
Have you seen this kid? https://www.aaronfotheringham.com/about/
There’s a girl named Ella who’s fucking amazing too.
Arguable worse. While beef only kills the cow, cheese and milk
* will sexually assault to extract bull semen
* sexually assault the cow by sticking a rod with the semen up its vagina and cervix, guided by a hand up the anus.
* Forcibly impregnate the cow and force it to give birth
* Separate the cow from the calf so the calf doesn't drink the milk
* And then kill the cow anyway when she stops producing as profitable amounts of milk
* As a bonus the calf will either be killed for veal or leather or suffer the same fate as the mother.
Eggs also kill the male chickens because they don't lay any. They do this at 1 day old in a macerator, gas camber or crush them.
Killing animals doesn't align with anarchists' goals of freedom and liberation. It is oppression.
Does taking the life of an animal really align with anarchists' goals of freedom and liberty? Killing animals is oppressive by nature.
Where's the part where she gets gang r@ped by her commanding officers, shot, and the lower part of her body burned and labeled a suicide?
>Everything is nature
No it's not, and I'm sorry you aren't intellectually developed enough to understand exploitation is exploitation.
The bio organic machine of our body, living as a wild animal only on homeopaty isn't made to survive over 50 years old. Or at least the bigger part of our gene pool.
I'm not insulting. I just stated you aren't developed enough intellectually. Please don't be that sensitive. Take it as it is. It wasn't meant to offend. Don't be "that kind of anarchist" that have never opened a book about anarchism. One has to educate one self before having an opinion. And if you can't see the exploitation of non-humans there's something wrong.
I dont want you to get the impression that im trying to be adversarial. You seem very genuine and responding in good faith.
Pacifism is a noble goal. Like i said previously, the goal or anarchist thought is a peaceful nonviolent, non hierarchical society.
But pacifism, which is to say non-disruptive protest, as a tool simply does not work as a means of liberation for the reasons i previously described.
Politely asking for the state to stop using abusing and killing us has really never worked. This isn't to say that pacifist or nonviolent activist have made no progress. Their progress is just tremendously hampered by the state.
Dr. King is the most famous example of this. Even he was mercilessly harassed by the FBI in the COINTELPRO program and sanitized to make him more palatable to conservative audiences.
All farming involves killing animals.
Yes but a lot, a lot of healing and change in the way of thinkng must happen before that, cause ive seen people ( white people of course) say that they take inspiration from indigdnous cultures and they have a spiritual relationship with store bought meat, which is obviosly nonsense and just an excuse for taking part in killing of sentient beings
If us eating another animal is just "nature" and is acceptable, then we can eat other humans, right ?
That's a really long shot to see "arrogance" in not wanting to exploit and kill other sentient beings, no matter if they are of our species or not
It was amazing! Posie was so wonderful.
If a cow lives a relatively natural life, is killed quickly, and every part of it is used, I have no moral objections.
i agree i don't have any ethical problems with eating meat either. the meat industry is horrible so i don't support it. i only eat the animals that have had the utmost freedom before i kill them myself. that's why i only eat human meat. you feel the same way so can i have your address? if you don't give it to me then it would look like you don't have problems with forcing people to do stuff. don't force me not to eat meat bro. stop being so authoritarian. just because i think harvesting you and eating your body for taste pleasure is justified it doesn't mean i'm putting you below me in a hierarchy. stop being so forceful. address please :)
i agree i don't have any ethical problems with eating meat either. the meat industry is horrible so i don't support it. i only eat the animals that have had the utmost freedom before i kill them myself. that's why i only eat human meat. you feel the same way so can i have your address? if you don't give it to me then it would look like you don't have problems with forcing people to do stuff. don't force me not to eat meat bro. stop being so authoritarian. just because i think harvesting you and eating your body for taste pleasure is justified it doesn't mean i'm putting you below me in a hierarchy. stop being so forceful. address please :)
i agree i don't have any ethical problems with eating meat either. the meat industry is horrible so i don't support it. i only eat the animals that have had the utmost freedom before i kill them myself. that's why i only eat human meat. you feel the same way so can i have your address? if you don't give it to me then it would look like you don't have problems with forcing people to do stuff. don't force me not to eat meat bro. stop being so authoritarian. just because i think harvesting you and eating your body for taste pleasure is justified it doesn't mean i'm putting you below me in a hierarchy. stop being so forceful. address please :)
Why this sub does not have an online group?I believe that, to create an anarchist society, we need to organize and spread libertarian socialist ideas to those who dont understand what anarchism is. Then, shouldn't we begin that by being together, ourselves? I understand that we need to organize in real life, of course. But that does not mean we don't have a good opportunity of knowing other anarchists online. This subreddit, for example, can unite anarchists from the whole world, can be a good way of mixing different ideas together and then thinking about ways to spread them. What is the point of all these posts, on this subreddit, if we end our days separated from each other? Could not we share, i don't know, a discord server? Any online app that we can talk in real time? Could not we talk more, planning things together and learning with each other? We have an opportunity here to know other anarchists, to make good connections with amazing people and discover how to make people realize how good society can be!
But there is not any option of doing so on the sub bar, no groups, no ways to get together. We need to do so, don't we? Why are we separated? I have seen some people say "it's not safe to do so, it will be seen by cops", well, fuck them? Why do you even care? What are you so scared of? Will you deny your own ideas because someone will try to stop you from having them? We should stop being scared of what bad things can happen and start making good things happen instead
Community, Democracy and Mutual Aid.... This is true anarchism from the ground up and an answer to all the fascists on this page who equate anarchism with violent take overs.
End the Surveillance State
If a cow lives a relatively natural life, is killed quickly, and every part of it is used, I have no moral objections.
Can we just vote to dissolve the United States in exchange for local community organizing and mutual aid?Why do we need the presidents permission to do what we need as a civilization? We already know what we want and we can get workers who are willing to build more housing (but can’t) to do so. We can literally get people together and do what we need.
This is literally what brought me out of my tankie phase, we really don’t need a strong leader, just each other.
We just need to abolish authority wherever we can. Ffs it’s so simple how didn’t I come up with it sooner.
Money is fake, they plant make trees only, they make it illegal to garden in some places, let me do what I want ffs. Any harm I do is nothing compared to what the government does.
We can have literal doctor unions (but why would doctors want to work for free?) people would still want to study medicine either way so-
Omg holy shit thanks for anarchism yall.
Poem Praising KROPOTKIN - by ChatGPTOh Peter Kropotkin, a man of great might,
A champion of freedom, and a beacon of light.
He stood for the people, and fought for their rights,
His visions of equality, still shining so bright.
With wisdom and knowledge, he led the way,
In the pursuit of justice, night and day.
His theories of mutual aid, still hold so true,
Inspiring the masses, in all that they do.
Oh Kropotkin, your legacy lives on,
As a hero of freedom, your story lives on.
We honor your courage, and your selfless fight,
For a world of equality, with freedom and light.
I'm trying to make an anarchy discord but I genuinely don't know what to put on it. pls can someone help meHere's the link to the discord I added an idea area so we can have everyone's ideas be put in. https://discord.gg/zWJMEJmB
>the idea that raising and eating animals is inherently cruel tends to be very centered on european cultures and ignore millenia of indegenous tradition.
The needless killing of animals is inherently cruel. The only excuse that indigenous people have is that often their killing wasn't needless; it was a necessity to survive.
>its also abelist as it assumes everyone can eat a vegan diet which is not true (some people have texture aversions, some people have food allergies, some people have disabilities that make it so they only have about 10 safe foods they can eat, etc).
The last one is a valid excuse, but the two before that aren't. Would you accept someone assaulting others because they have a condition where they need to hear the sounds of people screaming? Texture aversions is a pathetic excuse of abuse, and so are often food allergies. Veganism doesn't force you to eat certain foods, so be vegan and avoid the other foods you can't eat.
>it also ignores the natural role humans have in the ecosystem as well. and treating it as just cruetly ignores the benefits animals can get from it if theyre managed ethically like healthcare and consistent access to high quality food.
Who gives a shit if it's natural? Cruelty is cruelty, it doesn't matter if you give them a biscuit beforehand.
I started using a chair later in life but I’ve had mobility problems my whole life so I’ve never done much fun stuff. But I keep threatening my spouse that I’m gonna take my chair to a skate park because it looks so fucking fun.
Have you seen this kid? https://www.aaronfotheringham.com/about/
There’s a girl named Ella who’s fucking amazing too.
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Buzzed my hair senior year as an AFAB person and got harassed by the recruiters in the cafeteria every time I walked past. "Oh she's already ready, you wanna join??"
Always turned them down. Because at the time, I wanted to go to the fucking naval academy in Annapolis....
God bless my little dumbass heart, I never had the upper body strength for it until I started working bars and knew better than to join
>If you can, sure, but it's not actually an option for everyone.
I mean if you look at the definition provided by the Vegan Society, it technically is an option for everyone.
>Where I live, for example, there are food deserts. Food has to be trucked up for several days from the south, and that makes it quite expensive.
Yes, and if we get rid of capitalism for a society based on mutual aid, there will undoubtedly be vegans who'd happily drive all the way up in order to facilitate the people there not having to rely on killing and exploiting animals. Not to mention money won't be a problem if there is no money.
>Not to mention the emissions, and the exacerbation of the climate crisis as a result.
>
>Furthermore, there are fly-in communities, where that food has to be flown in, and again, that's massive emissions, which harms the environment.
Well that's a bit redundant because veganism isn't about the environment. I don't accept the idea of slaughtering and abusing animals to save a bit on carbon emissions. There are various other ways we can reduce it without relying on exploitation.
>Where I live, Indigenous folks hunted and fished sustainably for millennia. Winters here are more than half the year, pur growing season is really, really short, and it's not like there's tons of farmland and orchards, etc up here in the Arctic, lol.
In the same vein as before, I don't accept the idea that we should exploit animals in the name of sustainability. You're completely missing the point of veganism.
>Many folks feed their families and communities with hunting and fishing, so people don't go hungry in the long, cold, dark winter.
>
>If people can eat the vegan food, great, good for them, glad they're having a food, they need food to live.
>
>If people can eat non-vegan food, great, good for them, glad they're having a food, they need food to live.
>
>What's most important is that folks are getting what they need to live.
Yes and for the most part, people don't need animal products. Tell me please, do the trucks that bring food up not bring up beans, rice, oats, bread, pasta, other gains, veggies and fruits? What's your excuse?
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Left tiktok is fucked. They are nearing nazism with their dumbass solutions to world problems... its fucked.
But reddit and IG seem alright from the ppl Ive encountered.
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Judging people is not forcing them. You're judging them right now, are you trying to force them to eat meat? No, that's stupid.
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I never said be irresponsible today with your eating of meat because my ancestors sustainably ate meat. We're on the same page of people needing to eat much less meat. Just don't tell Natives they have to be vegan cause that's pretty stupid 😂 a lot of Natives are focused on Decolonization and that means forgetting European diets that were forced on us and going back to what our ancestors intended for us to eat
Nature is fucking brutal. Parents killing their children and eachother are part of nature. R*pe is part of nature. Survival of the fittest is part of nature. We have grown past these things, we do not need them, we do not want them. Why would the mass killing of living things that we do not need to eat be seen as any different
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Exactly, it's so weird some people can't get these concepts. I remember during my university years I was so entitled about my climate change ideas that I was thinking people were dumb and I was always judging who didn't think like me.
It's not always so easy how some people make it to be.
I do think it's problematic. It seems like a whole load of people fantasising about ending someone's life in self defence. Or an imaginary blaze of glory against a load of agents of the state. People are so easy to control and keep pacified when they believe they somehow hold the ultimate upper hand because they own a killing machine.
Also, surely the powers that be only have to halt the supply of ammunition into the country and then send in the troops... Much better to learn a martial art, get very fit and healthy if possible. And stop fantasising about killing people. Carry a non-lethal weapon.
Our comrades at Municipal Adhesives have produced a run of beautiful stickers as a gesture supporting us in the wake of corporate social media bans.
Ever killed an animal?
Killing and eating an animal is one of the most authoritarian things that is done on a regular basis. The problem here is that you don't recognize the animal's sentience and personhood. Lands not useful for farming should and can be re-wilded while still maintaining proper nutrition for the entire population of humans.
If us eating another animal is just "nature" and is acceptable, then we can eat other humans, right ?
That's a really long shot to see "arrogance" in not wanting to exploit and kill other sentient beings, no matter if they are of our species or not
Yes but a lot, a lot of healing and change in the way of thinkng must happen before that, cause ive seen people ( white people of course) say that they take inspiration from indigdnous cultures and they have a spiritual relationship with store bought meat, which is obviosly nonsense and just an excuse for taking part in killing of sentient beings
All farming involves killing animals.
I dont want you to get the impression that im trying to be adversarial. You seem very genuine and responding in good faith.
Pacifism is a noble goal. Like i said previously, the goal or anarchist thought is a peaceful nonviolent, non hierarchical society.
But pacifism, which is to say non-disruptive protest, as a tool simply does not work as a means of liberation for the reasons i previously described.
Politely asking for the state to stop using abusing and killing us has really never worked. This isn't to say that pacifist or nonviolent activist have made no progress. Their progress is just tremendously hampered by the state.
Dr. King is the most famous example of this. Even he was mercilessly harassed by the FBI in the COINTELPRO program and sanitized to make him more palatable to conservative audiences.
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You know full well that's a lie. Who in the history of the world has ever said that without intending to offend? Work on yourself before preaching morality on others, and learn to treat people better before you worry about animals. Or don't, either way don't play dumb when you get called out.
Where's the part where she gets gang r@ped by her commanding officers, shot, and the lower part of her body burned and labeled a suicide?
Our comrades at Municipal Adhesives have produced a run of beautiful stickers as a gesture supporting us in the wake of corporate social media bans.
Abolish The MONARCHY!!!
This is too much https://youtu.be/8dSNUZ4eGBY
I thought Black Lives Mattered. I guess not to black people. They seem to enjoy killing one another.
I still care about animals, just less. I believe animals should be treated humanely, but that does not preclude killing them for food. Freedom, however, is an entirely human concept and to apply it to animals is straight up nonsense.
My qualms are with killing, violence, and exploitation. The animals we share this planet with are sentient and have just as much of a right to life as us. There’s no way to ethically take the life of someone who does not want to die. And although you feel that vegans impose their beliefs on you, we are imposing our beliefs on animals when we slit their throats to eat their bodies. If you have an objection to killing dogs, cats, dolphins, or elephants, then you already know what’s wrong, you’ve just been indoctrinated by societal norms (like the rest of us) that see cows, pigs, chickens, fish, and deer as quasi-conscious beings that are indifferent to their own deaths. If anarchism is about an advanced society that values peace, egalitarianism, compassion, rational thought, environmental sustainability, etc., then the mass butcher of other creatures does not fit within that framework. The ethics of killing are only blurred in life-or-death/survival scenarios, and when we have an abundance of plant foods to eat then the slaughter of animals for food is done only for pleasure and tradition. There are no magical nutrients in animal flesh that we cannot get from plants; b12 used to come from soil and water and is now supplemented in animals, and omega 3s come from algae that fish eat or is supplemented as well. There are billions on the planet proving that a plant based diet is sustainable and healthy. Killing animals for their flesh/hides when unnecessary for survival, regardless of the method of butcher or circumstances of their upbringing, is exploitative of that being. Which anarchism seeks to actively oppose as a cornerstone of the philosophy.
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I still care about animals, just less. I believe animals should be treated humanely, but that does not preclude killing them for food. Freedom, however, is an entirely human concept and to apply it to animals is straight up nonsense.
I have to say that I don’t really find what happened on Jan 6th to be that big of a deal.Statist ‘leftists’ like to constantly point out that there’s some kind of ‘connection’ between GamerGate, the Alt-right pipeline, and what happened during Jan 6th.
GamerGate and the Alt-right pipeline, I kind of get. But why do some like to point out that both of those things are what led to January 6th? What exactly was the big deal with an authoritarian government, founded upon genocidal colonization, having the potential to be overthrown? A few cops even got killed, which means there’s even a few less class traitors in the world.
Am I missing something here?
1. Slaughtering a animal for its meat is exploitation, raising it and fatening it for consumption is coersion. It is a living being. Doing so is against anarchist priniples, and that is fine, but is it good? No.
2. Inequalities happen al the time and alot of them are totaly fine. Trains and busses are inequal and that is good. What we want is to meet the needs and wants of eatchother in a noncoersive manner. Gifting the subsistance farmers food is not coersion, it lifts them up and empowers them. And i am werry shure for the vast majority of the farmers who are doing husbendry can find vegan alternatives they are verry inventive. ...
3. i have to eat food, respond later.
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1. The problem with killing animals is they have the ability to suffer, so needlessly harming them is wrong. They have the same capacities to not want to be slaughtered for food as you would not want that to happen to you.
2. Veganism isn't about saving the world. It's about animal liberation.
3. Anarchist are allowed to use violence and force in the name of liberation others. If you are tolerant of intolerance, you are siding with the intolerant. I'm not the source of force and violence, you are. And every person has the right to defend the animals by violent means if necessary. Nevertheless what force have I used? You carnists always like to frame a confronting conversation as force. To be frank, if I could blow up a slaughterhouse, or force you to be vegan, I would. But alas I can't.
Killing animals doesn't align with anarchists' goals of freedom and liberation. It is oppression.
Does taking the life of an animal really align with anarchists' goals of freedom and liberty? Killing animals is oppressive by nature.
Arguable worse. While beef only kills the cow, cheese and milk
* will sexually assault to extract bull semen
* sexually assault the cow by sticking a rod with the semen up its vagina and cervix, guided by a hand up the anus.
* Forcibly impregnate the cow and force it to give birth
* Separate the cow from the calf so the calf doesn't drink the milk
* And then kill the cow anyway when she stops producing as profitable amounts of milk
* As a bonus the calf will either be killed for veal or leather or suffer the same fate as the mother.
Eggs also kill the male chickens because they don't lay any. They do this at 1 day old in a macerator, gas camber or crush them.
Fair point. There are more killing tools than I realised.
\+1
Guess what just got thrown away !Take that Microsoft !
I thought Black Lives Mattered. I guess not to black people. They seem to enjoy killing one another.
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Well, there are tweets coming out that he said he would rape another woman because she called him stupid. And also there are tweets that he didn't like black women, even though he is black and his mother is black
I've literally been in protests in which police were beating people in groups and other protestors were holding people back from going to the defense of someone on the ground getting stomped. I'm not misrepresenting anyone. Do you live in the US? Don't really care what you find hard to believe, I'm talking about regularly lived experiences of 'leftists' here that are massively apathetic to 'wanting change' and attempt to hold back other activists in order to stay within the lines of what is allowed as a peaceful protest
Why do we need a leader’s permission to be able to do the things we wanna do anyways?I just realized that. Lol.
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Don't just take our word for it though. Here's the so-called "father" of their ideology:
> *We must therefore conclude that we are not anarchists, and that those who call us anarchists are not on firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical.*
> —Murray Rothbard
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Hi u/MaxDamage1 - Unfortunately your submission has been removed.
So-called "anarcho"-capitalists are not anarchists - anarchism and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible concepts. As such, discussion of "an"caps or their ideology are not an appropriate topic for this subreddit.
Don't just take our word for it though. Here's the so-called "father" of their ideology:
> *We must therefore conclude that we are not anarchists, and that those who call us anarchists are not on firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical.*
> —Murray Rothbard
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Anyone listen to the Everyday Anarchism podcast? opinions?I've been trying to branch out in my socio-political educational journey, and I stumbled across Everyday Anarchism. It looks interesting but I'm trying to be careful not to fall into the AnCap pipeline or end up 20 podcasts into something with bad theory or method. Anyone listen to it and have opinions? If it is bad, does anyone have good podcast recommendations?
Step 1) be rich. Step 2) the government wont care if we all run for the woods
the french are wack AF. nowadays they're total wimps compared to the guillotine days
The Conquest of Bread in the 21st century I read The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin, agreed with its criticisms of capitalism and other forms of wage labor but couldn’t help but think its age stopped it from fully executing its criticism.
And of course the English translation was written in 1907 so I don’t expect it to. My question is are there any authors that continued his criticisms of capitalism and theory of mutual into the 21st century or were influenced by him that then built upon his work?
The world is different now, much more efficient but also much more complicated. I would imagine his calculations of how long it would take to produce what is needed to sustain a population clothing, food, and housing wise would decrease dramatically (obviously). But I also think sustainable energy would be interesting to examine and other technological advancements in the context of a communist production process.
Any thoughts replies would be appreciated!
Step 1) be rich. Step 2) the government wont care if we all run for the woods
I've literally been in protests in which police were beating people in groups and other protestors were holding people back from going to the defense of someone on the ground getting stomped. I'm not misrepresenting anyone. Do you live in the US? Don't really care what you find hard to believe, I'm talking about regularly lived experiences of 'leftists' here that are massively apathetic to 'wanting change' and attempt to hold back other activists in order to stay within the lines of what is allowed as a peaceful protest
Police are always scared for their lives. They are the most fearful people on the planet, yet we give them guns and protections when they murder people.
Soldiers exercise much more discipline and deescalation tactics than cops ever do. Soldiers are the ones literally going in to battlefields where people actually are shooting at them every day, yet they are still more disciplined. If police want to be militarized so bad, they should be expected to practice similar rules of engagement.
Read the rules in the sidebar and stop setting the sub up for trouble.
is resistance really violence?I have been trying to talk with and understand anarchists and leftists desire to remain "non violent" in protest and in direct action against police violence and the government sanctioned murder and oppression of civilians. In my book, resistance under any means necessary is not violence, it is self defense, and that violence inherently denotes power/oppression. "Non violent" protestors will often say "we are better than that, we are better than they are" when stopping other demonstrators from defending themselves or when trying to dismantle direct action initiatives I've been in relation too. Like as a movement, we want to revolt but only in the way they are technically allowed to?
Am I missing something? Maybe I am ingnorant or naive. But aren't we literally being killed in the street by a bunch of fascists? And essentially letting it happen by not arming and organizing ourselves and seizing the precincts by force?
I'm obviously angry and I think the infighting on the left is often what keeps things from changing, but just not sure why there hasn't yet been a call to truly resist the oppression with substantial force. Maybe some of y'all have a perspective I haven't heard yet that can help me make sense of it. I just figure if the gov/pigs are gonna kill us, they might as well have to work for it, and we might as well give revolution a real honest try.
TLDR:
Looking for incite. Why not really fight back?
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Who is going to fund it dumbass
I guess I hope people give a fuck about their ecosystems, but, yeah, I guess we'll see.
There's a bunch of very effective disinfo surrounding this subject. I've said it before, we need better propaganda.
Spot the ~~fed~~ (AVERAGE REDDIT ENJOYER) that insinuates folks with disabilities will necessarily suffer, and they'll never specify what that disability is or acknowledge societies where the ill defined disability gets support.
I'll see ya back here after.
[ Removed by Reddit ][ Removed by reddit on account of violating the [content policy](/help/contentpolicy). ]
My grandpa(cop) did a drive by shooting with his dad(also a cop) and got fired (his dad did not)
Killing random people sitting on a throne never works because they simply get replaced. You need to smash the established order to enact long-lasting actual change. Murdering people also never looks good & is pointless. Murdering other humans has a horrible impact on ones sanity, unless you're a psychopath & most people are not.
I've seen a video of exactly this scenario happening. Guy had a cane and the cop called it a weapon. The man showed them it was a cane and the cop kept insisting that he was frightened because it could be a weapon. I don't think he was killed. It could happen though.
So what? They say that if the police are trying to kill you, and you try to defend yourself, you are just as bad as them? Again, I find it extremely hard to believe that people actually said that to you and you aren't wildly misrepresenting them.
My position is more that even if every anarchist in the US was armed, they still wouldn't pose a real challenge to existing power structures, because anarchists would have civilian small arms and molotovs and the government has tanks, bombs and drones.
The way for anarchists in the US to become a threat to the government isn't to give into the propaganda by thee small arms industry that you should have a gun, because otherwise you're not safe, but to expand the movement, educate and convince people, show that anarchism works... And make sure that by the time the US government does start thinking of anarchists as a threat to their rule, that not only will the anarchists of that day say 'no' to negotiating with the government, but that the soldiers that the government then orders to shoot them will say 'no' too, because they too are sympathetic to anarchism (or outright anarchists) themselves.
Keep in mind, by the way, that despite being in The Netherlands, a country with pretty prominent gun control, I legally owned two firearms (a .22 Anschutz rifle and a .45 Browning 1911) for quite a while before I sold them during the pandemic, since I wasn't getting out to the range any way.
So, you know, I'm not opposed to gun ownership. I'm actually a bit of a gun enthusiast... But you shouldn't buy a gun just because you feel unsafe. Because buying a gun under that motivation doesn't make you personally any safer and it actively makes people in your direct surroundings less safe.
My position is more that even if every anarchist in the US was armed, they still wouldn't pose a real challenge to existing power structures, because anarchists would have civilian small arms and molotovs and the government has tanks, bombs and drones.
The way for anarchists in the US to become a threat to the government isn't to give into the propaganda by thee small arms industry that you should have a gun, because otherwise you're not safe, but to expand the movement, educate and convince people, show that anarchism works... And make sure that by the time the US government does start thinking of anarchists as a threat to their rule, that not only will the anarchists of that day say 'no' to negotiating with the government, but that the soldiers that the government then orders to shoot them will say 'no' too, because they too are sympathetic to anarchism (or outright anarchists) themselves.
Keep in mind, by the way, that despite being in The Netherlands, a country with pretty prominent gun control, I legally owned two firearms (a .22 Anschutz rifle and a .45 Browning 1911) for quite a while before I sold them during the pandemic, since I wasn't getting out to the range any way.
So, you know, I'm not opposed to gun ownership. I'm actually a bit of a gun enthusiast... But you shouldn't buy a gun just because you feel unsafe. Because buying a gun under that motivation doesn't make you personally any safer and it actively makes people in your direct surroundings less safe.
So what? They say that if the police are trying to kill you, and you try to defend yourself, you are just as bad as them? Again, I find it extremely hard to believe that people actually said that to you and you aren't wildly misrepresenting them.
I've seen a video of exactly this scenario happening. Guy had a cane and the cop called it a weapon. The man showed them it was a cane and the cop kept insisting that he was frightened because it could be a weapon. I don't think he was killed. It could happen though.
Isn’t true Anarchism paradoxically impossible?People are always gonna wanna form groups, gangs, alliances, and the line between those and nations/governments can get blurry, can they not?
Police are always scared for their lives. They are the most fearful people on the planet, yet we give them guns and protections when they murder people.
Soldiers exercise much more discipline and deescalation tactics than cops ever do. Soldiers are the ones literally going in to battlefields where people actually are shooting at them every day, yet they are still more disciplined. If police want to be militarized so bad, they should be expected to practice similar rules of engagement.
Killing random people sitting on a throne never works because they simply get replaced. You need to smash the established order to enact long-lasting actual change. Murdering people also never looks good & is pointless. Murdering other humans has a horrible impact on ones sanity, unless you're a psychopath & most people are not.
My grandpa(cop) did a drive by shooting with his dad(also a cop) and got fired (his dad did not)
is resistance really violence?I have been trying to talk with and understand anarchists and leftists desire to remain "non violent" in protest and in direct action against police violence and the government sanctioned murder and oppression of civilians. In my book, resistance under any means necessary is not violence, it is self defense, and that violence inherently denotes power/oppression. "Non violent" protestors will often say "we are better than that, we are better than they are" when stopping other demonstrators from defending themselves or when trying to dismantle direct action initiatives I've been in relation too. Like as a movement, we want to revolt but only in the way they are technically allowed to?
Am I missing something? Maybe I am ingnorant or naive. But aren't we literally being killed in the street by a bunch of fascists? And essentially letting it happen by not arming and organizing ourselves and seizing the precincts by force?
I'm obviously angry and I think the infighting on the left is often what keeps things from changing, but just not sure why there hasn't yet been a call to truly resist the oppression with substantial force. Maybe some of y'all have a perspective I haven't heard yet that can help me make sense of it. I just figure if the gov/pigs are gonna kill us, they might as well have to work for it, and we might as well give revolution a real honest try.
TLDR:
Looking for incite. Why not really fight back?
>I think of it more as tools created with the express purpose of defending my loved ones and my community.
Fair enough but I don't think that refutes the only purpose of them being to kill.
They don't call them defense rifles, it's "assault" for a reason.
All you're defending them from is other guns. And the way you defend is by using them to kill.
>A constitution is a means of organization and agreement for creating stability and clarity on the general rules we agree to live by, it doesn't defend itself, no idea does, it's defended by the people
This is so well said, thank you. What do you think of the idea of "nested" constitutions? That is, we have one constitution (aka social contract) for The People of Earth, and then every free association of people within this pool of 8 billion draws up their own - more specific - contract, and then "plugs it in" so to speak, to the base-level ("People of Earth") one.
This would literally disenfranchise many, many people though. Minorities particularly where there are communities that are majority bigot.
I wasn't really asking.
Be the change I want to see? Fuck your liberal crap, honky.
"So how is it that today the anarchist movement in Britain (and elsewhere) is supporting one nation's military against another, ideologically justifying and materially provisioning the Ukrainian war effort?"
Putin is the clear and obvious aggressor, is blowing up hospitals, and has openly threatened to use nuclear weapons in a first strike. Both sides are evil, but Putin is obviously much more dangerous. He's also an authoritarian who celebrates Stalin and openly imprisons and murders anarchists. In the U.S. and U.K., when the government kills you, at least they have to make up an excuse.
The American Civil War was not a War of Northern Aggression and what is happening in Ukraine is not a War of NATO Aggression.
Both sides were not the same in the American Civil War, World War II or the Spanish Civil War and they aren't the same now. Anarchists should be above this kind of campist ML bullshit.
If you're exhausted now wait till you're trying to become self sufficient! Its exhausting but fulfilling work. I have a simular goal but instead of Oregon i want to see a radical and sustainable community in the hundreds of abandoned "floating" islands (chinampas) in the southern part of Mexico City.
Some friends and I have been working a chinampa for the last couple years. Their capacity for food production is next level but the area is generally hard to access because you need some form of water craft to get around (plus a place to park it, assuming you're not living on the chinampa.
A drone shot of the area im working on --> https://postimg.cc/zyNcZzLy
Politics is numbers, as is change. If you can’t reach normal people you aren’t revolutionary- simple as.
Fuck you care about legality for? Just don’t get caught until you’re entrenched enough to be really annoying to kick out. I’m not anarchist, I’m just subbed to see what y’all are up to because it interests me, but fuck, you guys really are bad at planning action sometimes
I’d recommend reading up on some guides regarding squatting as well as some research on larger scale practical examples to get a good handle on what’s been done before and what you’re likely to be able to get away with. I’d also recommend acquiring and reading official US military guides to things like operational security, SEAR, surveillance, etc., as in my experience they are helpful, straightforwards, enjoyable to read, thorough, and available as free PDFs online if you look around. Later I could provide some links if you’d like examples.
My suggestion if your plan is oregon is to do some research on what tracts of land in the national forests are more extensively patrolled, exploited, and just generally inhabited, and occupying the most pleasant dead zone you can find.
Make absolutely sure to extensively plan escape routes and emergency plans, too. You guys don’t want to be caught with no food, no way to call for help, and no way back owing to snow.
You absolutely can do this. It’s not a systemic solution to capitalism but as long as you’re not alone and all involved are willing to do their best to ensure material health of the commune, it’s doable
can you actually give examples? or are you just being problematic/trying to justify your issues with your own version of misguided nationalism?
You do realize many white anarchists, are so, because they were never given a choice in their own self determination? I dont choose to focus on the differences, I would rather work on our similarities. Which seems to be a mystery, reading your responses...to what you actually want.
It seems like many leftists simplify/or co opt class issues, in lieu of racial issues. Instead of acknowledging both issues as both separate and overlapping. With very minimal input from the very communities they are piggybacking off of. it does happen for sure, but its not every group that is guilty of this. there are white allies that "get it".
Cop killing is probably the most overt example of systemic racial disparity. Something, of which, you cannot convince the majority of YT people of.
But, I see police abolishment in a hierarchal society, as a non starter personally. I dont think radical solution exist within a capitalist society. Because, as you said, the police are a symptom of hierarchies which relies on racism/classism/otherism. The police push disparity on poor communities, and the cycle repeats itself. Its like a snake that devours its own tail.
Thats just capitalism.
The only solution I keep coming back to, is a choice. We can create our own society, if we believe in creating a non hierarchal existence (and I think we can). VS. doing the same thing every day.
OR- we can go the route of the black nationalists before us (early malcolm X/ the nation of islam), and create an ethnostate, essentially segregating us once again.
I prefer the new society, within the broken one. Or you can continue your hateful nationalism, and become your oppressor....which honestly sounds like misery.
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If it becomes too successful, govt. might tax and ordinance it to death or Waco it.
>No other such tool exists afaik
Swords, spears, polearms, bows, slingshots, shillelagh.
Edit: How could I forget my beloved favorite low-tech killing tool, the atlatl. Atlatls don't get enough love and attention.
Hell yea, be armed, I carry when I go out, and am planning on going shooting latter today
I do have to say that none of that has anything to do with what I said about naturally occurring physical hierarchies in terms of self defense. A strike from a 6’+ man is vastly more lethal than a punch from a smaller opponent. A bullet from either has the exact same velocity.
That said do you think the guns, or even just weapons are the reason these regions have hierarchies? Violence and fracture are systems driven effects imo. Munitions have a negligible effect on the existence of it outside of lethality. The world was more lethal and more Balkanized prior to the existence of firearms than it is today.
I think, in the U.S. anyway, a lot of us who grew up outside of urban environments don't look at guns the way urbanites or Europeans do. We went shooting for fun, we shot in Boy scouts when I was a kid, and we hunted to supplement our groceries. There were very few breaking and entry situations because you would probably get shot. I can remember riding around in our truck with a gun in the rack, and getting dropped at school, and no one thinking anything of it. Most of the "gun nut" types were vets. It never even occurred to me to shoot someone because it was entirely counterintuitive to all the safety training that was beaten into my head. When I moved to the city, Suddenly everyone talked about self-defense. We needed guns, because of fash. Fash wanted guns, because of us, and anyone of color. Our local gangs wanted them for gangster issues and so on. And of course, there were the pigs. Now I did occasionally shoot rats in some of the places I lived in, but for the most part the entire "gun culture" was entirely different. That's the problem. Guns are a tool, How we approach them is the problem, are they a tool, or an excuse? If you break in my house, I'd probably give you my tv and some anarchist literature, but if my family is threatened, things will be different. And finally, even if there were no guns, we'd simply build bombs.
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary" as a First Nations Canadian firearms are integral to our way of life (even more so for the far more rural reservations) and in keeping with our traditional ways. Oh and also the fact our colonialist government consistently tries to kill and suppress us and has so for the last few hundred years.
I own a few and I practice when I can. Besides being a great tool for self and community defense, I think they're just fun to shoot.
I live in Germany and I know noöne who would have guns or some kind of weapons that is not pepper spray, knives found in the kitchen or smth. If there's a real risk of being attacked violently, then I'd recommend guns I guess. Else, preferably not.
Fucking hell are the other commenters ever missing the point here.
Edit: I guess I should provide context that other people don't have, since I'm Dutch and have been aware of this liberal vanity project.
So let's address some things:
# These houses are cheap.
So... That's not true. While the houses are roughly around the *average price* of a house in the Netherlands, that average includes really expensive houses in the suburbs around big cities that go for four times as much as these houses...
The reality is that for their size and location, these houses are hideously expensive.
The reason these houses are so expensive (besides the usual liberal 'better than everyone else' tax) is that several private companies have sold experimental equipment (like the water circulation/filtration system). This neighbourhood is partially meant for testing out the technology.
However, to be fair and provide full context, they're not as expensive as they could be, since this neighbourhood receives a fuckton of subsidies from both the local government (who like being able to brag about their super eco-friendly new neighbourhood) and the national government (who have made an agreement with the EU to put a certain percentage of the national budget towards improving sustainability and combating climate change and have chosen to put a sizeable amount of it towards this vanity project by a developer who's friends with a cabinet member, rather than, say, improving public transit or investing in more solar or wind power for the national power grid).
And, unlike for most housing projects in the Netherlands, the residents don't have to pay for the cost the builders incurred purchasing the land, since the land was donated by the town.
# The people who live there aren't rich.
This is similarly not a lie, but only on a technical level. The people who live in this neighbourhood aren't *all* rich. Some of them are 'only' members of the top 40%, not members of the top 10%. And therefore *technically '*well-off', not rich.
And indeed there are some people in the neighbourhood who are regular workers. The founder of this project (who is an architect who wants other cities and towns to hire him to build them similar neighbourhoods) proudly tells people that the inhabitants of the neighbourhood are 'average' people.
There's someone who 'works in healthcare'
The way he phrases it in Dutch implies it's a doctor or nurse, but when you look into it, it's actually the veterinarian who takes care of the health of the animals that the project relies on for part of its food self-sufficiency.
A 'welder'
That one's accurate, some of the inhabitants of the neighbourhood are project employees who are responsible for the maintenance of all the experimental devices the neighbourhood uses, including a welder.
The original intent was for the neighbourhood to be 18 houses, but after a few months they built 6 additional buildings (five houses and a toolshed) in order to move the maintenance crew onto the site, since the residents were getting tired of the maintenance crew having to come from off site whenever something broke. Stuff breaks a lot.
None of the maintenance staff would be able to afford to live there on their own salaries, but the project pays their living costs to keep them close at hand.
And several members of the local town council. (You know 'average people'. I wonder is there's any overlap between the people who voted for the town to donate free land to the project and those live there now. I won't spoil the surprise, but as unrelated interesting fact, did you know that some Venn diagrams are just a single circle?).
What he carefully avoids mentioning is that everyone else who lives there is an investor in the project, either in the project itself (backing the architect's company and expecting a return when he gets hired to do more neighbourhoods like this) or in the technology behind it.
# Ok, but it's still a net benefit for the environment, right?
No, actually.
With the exception of the on-site staff who keep things from falling apart on the inhabitant, all of the people who live there work off-site. And not in the nearby town either. The fact that this site is so out-of-the-way in order to be surrounded by green in The Netherlands (the most urbanised country in Europe, possibly the world, that isn't a city-state) means that the collective commute of the residents alone offsets nearly all the ecological benefits of the neighbourhood itself.
In addition, when the neighbourhood says it's 70% *energy self-sufficient*, what it means is that it produces an amount of electricity equal to 70% of what it consumes... What it markedly does not mean is that 70% of it's electricity comes from those solar panels on the roof.
What it means instead is that when it's sunny outside, those solar panels produce more energy than the residents use and that gets dumped into the national grid (i.e. the neighbourhood doesn't actually *use* or even store most of the electricity it generates). When the sun goes down, all the houses start getting power *from* the national grid (which still runs mostly on coal and natural gas) instead.
And... Do you know how people in this neighbourhood keep warm during the winter? Wood-burning stoves and furnaces.
Using pre-cut wood brought by the literal truckload into the neighbourhood (well... to the edge of the neighbourhood, they don't allow cars into the neighbourhood). The emissions from that transport and wood burning alone would make it more eco-friendly to just use natural gas or electric heating like everyone else in the country.
# What?
Yes, according to the calculations on how much wood this neighbourhood uses for its heating, it would be better for the environment for them to just use natural gas than what they're doing now. But the residents don't do that, because it doesn't *look* 'green' or 'rustic' and this neighbourhood is all about solarpunk aesthetics over actual solarpunk principles.
Take also the grass-covered roofs. That looks nice and green, right? It does. But, in addition to soil, grass needs water to grow properly and the amount of cold water that gets pumped onto these roofs in winter in order to keep the grass green cools down the houses so much that the heatpumps can't keep up and keep the house warm. That's why they need the wood stoves, those were a later addition.
# Final thoughts
The technology that this neighbourhood is pioneering, if wrested from the greedy corporate hands that want to be the only ones allowed to use or profit from it, has the potential to be a great benefit to people all over the world.
But the neighbourhood itself is just a vanity project by an architect who wants to get rich selling 'green' housing to the country, even if he has to actively harm the environment to maintain his desired aesthetic and a bunch of upper middle-class liberals who want to larp being eco-friendly by living in a car-free, 'green' neighbourhood while also commuting to their actual jobs in the big city a dozen miles away (which is a long distance in the Netherlands) in SUVs.
Same thing happened with the Somali officer in Minnesota who killed that white woman. He was fired and convicted so quick it made my head spin. I was shocked. There wasn’t even video.
The problem is that someone hunting for you is going to shoot you before you ever get your gun out to shoot them first (unless you're so paranoid that you never not have your gun in your hand, which feels like it wouldn't be a fun way to live), because the person hunting for you has already made the decision to shoot you before you're even aware of it and able to make the decision to shoot back/first.
That's why US cops murder so many innocent people: Because they're ~~taught~~ outright indoctrinated to always be ready to kill anyone they think might do them harm, so that they can make the split second decision to shoot before the other person does. Combine that with systemic racism, ableism and other forms of xenophobia and you get a deadly combination.
The thing is that I have seen several stories about the origin of the symbol. One says the origin is in Spain, another, as you mentioned, says it was in France, and I've seen stories that say it originated in the anarchist railroad cooperative in the USA.
I've never seen an account as convincing as the one by Tomás Ibáñez, who was presumably involved in the events in France. [This](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Le_premier_A_cercl%C3%A9.jpg) is the issue of the "Bulletin de liaison et de discussion des Jeunes Libertaires" where the "A cerclé" was introduced in those circles.
Hello, u/Kjthedon-! Unfortunately, your submission has been removed, as it appears to be better suited for r/Anarchy101, which is a great resource to learn more about some of the fundamentals of anarchism, its history, etc. We recommend stopping over there and first **using the search bar** to see if your question has already been asked and answered before creating a new post.
Some other great resources you may be interested in include [our introduction to anarchism](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/primer) as well as [Anarchy Works](https://anarchy.works/primer.html) - an excellent book that covers a large number of frequently asked questions. If you prefer an ebook version, you can get a free copy in epub format [here](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works.epub), but for someone trying to learn what anarchism is about, we would specifically recommend the following sections:
* [What exactly is Anarchism?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc3)
* [How will decisions be made?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc16)
* [Economy: How will exchange work?](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc29)
* [It works when we make it work](https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc67)
In the meantime, you're still more than welcome to engage with the community while you learn!
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If it’s everyone for themselves in a anarchistic society do people have to take care of their babies?
If it’s everyone for themselves in a anarchistic society do people have to take care of their babies?
The Dungeons and Dragons Character Alignment Tier ListI'm not even really an anarchist anymore, but, figured that my thoughts on this matter would be highly relevant to all of you.
Philosophical Anarchism:
1. Chaotic Good
2. True Neutral
3. Neutral Good
4. Chaotic Neutral
5. Lawful Good
6. Lawful Neutral
7. Chaotic Evil
8. Neutral Evil
9. Lawful Evil
Justified True Believer Anarchism:
1. Neutral Good
2. Chaotic Good
3. True Neutral
4. Chaotic Neutral
5. Lawful Good
6. Lawful Neutral
7. Chaotic Evil
8. Neutral Evil
9. Lawful Evil
Regular Anarchism:
1. Chaotic Good
2. True Neutral
3. Neutral Good
4. Chaotic Neutral
5. Lawful Neutral
6. Chaotic Evil
7. Lawful Good
8. Neutral Evil
9. Lawful Evil
*Agent Provocateur* Anarchism:
1. Chaotic Neutral
2. Chaotic Good
3. Chaotic Evil
4. True Neutral
5. Lawful Neutral
6. Neutral Evil
7. Neutral Good
8. Lawful Evil
9. Lawful Good
>and the state are armed and want us dead
'The state' doesn't want anarchists dead.
'The state' is an abstract term that exists as an umbrella term for many, very different governments and non-government authorities that we came up with so we can talk about the general problems with the concept of rulership. And you can't ascribe any desires or motivations to it, because 'the state' doesn't actually exist as a concrete entity in reality. (And people in the US, Anarchists and 'Libertarians' alike really need to stop using 'the state' when they mean 'the US federal government'.)
That said, nearly all *governments* are perfectly willing to kill anyone who threatens their continued existence (which definitely includes anarchists) once that threat becomes too effective to ignore. But, you know, anarchists in the US ain't seen as a threat to the US government right now and if every anarchist would go get a gun tomorrow, that would change considerably.
>and the state are armed and want us dead
'The state' doesn't want anarchists dead.
'The state' is an abstract term that exists as an umbrella term for many, very different governments and non-government authorities that we came up with so we can talk about the general problems with the concept of rulership. And you can't ascribe any desires or motivations to it, because 'the state' doesn't actually exist as a concrete entity in reality. (And people in the US, Anarchists and 'Libertarians' alike really need to stop using 'the state' when they mean 'the US federal government'.)
That said, nearly all *governments* are perfectly willing to kill anyone who threatens their continued existence (which definitely includes anarchists) once that threat becomes too effective to ignore. But, you know, anarchists in the US ain't seen as a threat to the US government right now and if every anarchist would go get a gun tomorrow, that would change considerably.
Fucking hell are the other commenters ever missing the point here.
Edit: I guess I should provide context that other people don't have, since I'm Dutch and have been aware of this liberal vanity project.
So let's address some things:
# These houses are cheap.
So... That's not true. While the houses are roughly around the *average price* of a house in the Netherlands, that average includes really expensive houses in the suburbs around big cities that go for four times as much as these houses...
The reality is that for their size and location, these houses are hideously expensive.
The reason these houses are so expensive (besides the usual liberal 'better than everyone else' tax) is that several private companies have sold experimental equipment (like the water circulation/filtration system). This neighbourhood is partially meant for testing out the technology.
However, to be fair and provide full context, they're not as expensive as they could be, since this neighbourhood receives a fuckton of subsidies from both the local government (who like being able to brag about their super eco-friendly new neighbourhood) and the national government (who have made an agreement with the EU to put a certain percentage of the national budget towards improving sustainability and combating climate change and have chosen to put a sizeable amount of it towards this vanity project by a developer who's friends with a cabinet member, rather than, say, improving public transit or investing in more solar or wind power for the national power grid).
And, unlike for most housing projects in the Netherlands, the residents don't have to pay for the cost the builders incurred purchasing the land, since the land was donated by the town.
# The people who live there aren't rich.
This is similarly not a lie, but only on a technical level. The people who live in this neighbourhood aren't *all* rich. Some of them are 'only' members of the top 40%, not members of the top 10%. And therefore *technically '*well-off', not rich.
And indeed there are some people in the neighbourhood who are regular workers. The founder of this project (who is an architect who wants other cities and towns to hire him to build them similar neighbourhoods) proudly tells people that the inhabitants of the neighbourhood are 'average' people.
There's someone who 'works in healthcare'
The way he phrases it in Dutch implies it's a doctor or nurse, but when you look into it, it's actually the veterinarian who takes care of the health of the animals that the project relies on for part of its food self-sufficiency.
A 'welder'
That one's accurate, some of the inhabitants of the neighbourhood are project employees who are responsible for the maintenance of all the experimental devices the neighbourhood uses, including a welder.
The original intent was for the neighbourhood to be 18 houses, but after a few months they built 6 additional buildings (five houses and a toolshed) in order to move the maintenance crew onto the site, since the residents were getting tired of the maintenance crew having to come from off site whenever something broke. Stuff breaks a lot.
None of the maintenance staff would be able to afford to live there on their own salaries, but the project pays their living costs to keep them close at hand.
And several members of the local town council. (You know 'average people'. I wonder is there's any overlap between the people who voted for the town to donate free land to the project and those live there now. I won't spoil the surprise, but as unrelated interesting fact, did you know that some Venn diagrams are just a single circle?).
What he carefully avoids mentioning is that everyone else who lives there is an investor in the project, either in the project itself (backing the architect's company and expecting a return when he gets hired to do more neighbourhoods like this) or in the technology behind it.
# Ok, but it's still a net benefit for the environment, right?
No, actually.
With the exception of the on-site staff who keep things from falling apart on the inhabitant, all of the people who live there work off-site. And not in the nearby town either. The fact that this site is so out-of-the-way in order to be surrounded by green in The Netherlands (the most urbanised country in Europe, possibly the world, that isn't a city-state) means that the collective commute of the residents alone offsets nearly all the ecological benefits of the neighbourhood itself.
In addition, when the neighbourhood says it's 70% *energy self-sufficient*, what it means is that it produces an amount of electricity equal to 70% of what it consumes... What it markedly does not mean is that 70% of it's electricity comes from those solar panels on the roof.
What it means instead is that when it's sunny outside, those solar panels produce more energy than the residents use and that gets dumped into the national grid (i.e. the neighbourhood doesn't actually *use* or even store most of the electricity it generates). When the sun goes down, all the houses start getting power *from* the national grid (which still runs mostly on coal and natural gas) instead.
And... Do you know how people in this neighbourhood keep warm during the winter? Wood-burning stoves and furnaces.
Using pre-cut wood brought by the literal truckload into the neighbourhood (well... to the edge of the neighbourhood, they don't allow cars into the neighbourhood). The emissions from that transport and wood burning alone would make it more eco-friendly to just use natural gas or electric heating like everyone else in the country.
# What?
Yes, according to the calculations on how much wood this neighbourhood uses for its heating, it would be better for the environment for them to just use natural gas than what they're doing now. But the residents don't do that, because it doesn't *look* 'green' or 'rustic' and this neighbourhood is all about solarpunk aesthetics over actual solarpunk principles.
Take also the grass-covered roofs. That looks nice and green, right? It does. But, in addition to soil, grass needs water to grow properly and the amount of cold water that gets pumped onto these roofs in winter in order to keep the grass green cools down the houses so much that the heatpumps can't keep up and keep the house warm. That's why they need the wood stoves, those were a later addition.
# Final thoughts
The technology that this neighbourhood is pioneering, if wrested from the greedy corporate hands that want to be the only ones allowed to use or profit from it, has the potential to be a great benefit to people all over the world.
But the neighbourhood itself is just a vanity project by an architect who wants to get rich selling 'green' housing to the country, even if he has to actively harm the environment to maintain his desired aesthetic and a bunch of upper middle-class liberals who want to larp being eco-friendly by living in a car-free, 'green' neighbourhood while also commuting to their actual jobs in the big city a dozen miles away (which is a long distance in the Netherlands) in SUVs.
The Dungeons and Dragons Character Alignment Tier ListI'm not even really an anarchist anymore, but, figured that my thoughts on this matter would be highly relevant to all of you.
Philosophical Anarchism:
1. Chaotic Good
2. True Neutral
3. Neutral Good
4. Chaotic Neutral
5. Lawful Good
6. Lawful Neutral
7. Chaotic Evil
8. Neutral Evil
9. Lawful Evil
Justified True Believer Anarchism:
1. Neutral Good
2. Chaotic Good
3. True Neutral
4. Chaotic Neutral
5. Lawful Good
6. Lawful Neutral
7. Chaotic Evil
8. Neutral Evil
9. Lawful Evil
Regular Anarchism:
1. Chaotic Good
2. True Neutral
3. Neutral Good
4. Chaotic Neutral
5. Lawful Neutral
6. Chaotic Evil
7. Lawful Good
8. Neutral Evil
9. Lawful Evil
*Agent Provocateur* Anarchism:
1. Chaotic Neutral
2. Chaotic Good
3. Chaotic Evil
4. True Neutral
5. Lawful Neutral
6. Neutral Evil
7. Neutral Good
8. Lawful Evil
9. Lawful Good
Hi u/Bikeridesnhighfives - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
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the french are bitches doe. nowadays they're total cucks compared to the guillotine days
Hi u/Pretend-Cheek-7390 - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
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I believe one of the core principles of being a real anarchist is believing that firearms are an essential part of life, and a vital part of maintaining sovereignty and freedom. I live in an area where it's all just typical fetishism and NRA-fueled paranoia, but I believe the 2nd Amendment to be outdated in this day and age.
What I do live by, however, is 3 magic words; "Under No Pretext". This is basically the Leftist version on guns being a right and not a commodity. These words were coined by none other than Karl Marx himself, where he shared his own thoughts on gun ownership.
He explicitly states: "Under No Pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered, and any attempt to disarm the working class must be frustrated, by force if necessary." Next time some MAGA-moron accuses you of being a dirty, freedom-hating, anti-gun commie, just use that sentence to dispute it.
But I don't just wanna draw from my ideology, I also wanna jump into personal opinions. As it stands, I own 11 firearms: 5 handguns (each of different calibers ranging from 9mm - 50AE), 2 Kalashnikov platforms, 2 AR-15s, a Hunting Rifle, and a Shotgun. I'm a competitive shooter, I enjoy my time at the range, and I go to Alaska every few years to bag some food.
I don't just use them for hobbies, though. I'm also in line with 2 leftist gun clubs (which I will not disclose here for safety concerns), with whom I regularly train defensive tactics with, because if there's one thing I know about the American Right, it's that they're always armed, and won't hesitate to use violence.
In order to encourage my comrades to arm up and train, I often times feel the need to turn to some of the most horrific atrocities committed by the Far-right as an example... The Tree of Life Synagogue, The El Paso Walmart, The Buffalo Mall, and now most recently Club-Q in Colorado... Each of these mass shootings had one thing in common, and that's the targeting of minorities.
Whenever I find myself in a discussion with centrists and anti-gun Libbies, I always explain that armed minorities become harder to oppress. I also try to tell them that the right will become more wary of us when they find out we know how to use weapons. And to a larger extent, I would often say that these kinds of massacres can be deterred or stopped in their tracks if everyone and a sheep owned a piece of their own.
Hi u/Pretend-Cheek-7390 - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
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I believe one of the core principles of being a real anarchist is believing that firearms are an essential part of life, and a vital part of maintaining sovereignty and freedom. I live in an area where it's all just typical hill*****-fashioned fetishism and NRA-fueled paranoia, but I believe the 2nd Amendment to be outdated in this day and age.
What I do live by, however, are 3 magic words; "Under No Pretext". This is basically the Leftist version on guns being a right and not a commodity. These words were coined by none other than Karl Marx himself, where he shared his own thoughts on gun ownership.
He explicitly states: "Under No Pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered, and any attempt to disarm the working class must be frustrated, by force if necessary." Next time some MAGA-moron accuses you of being a dirty, freedom-hating, anti-gun commie, just use that sentence to dispute it.
But I don't just wanna draw from my ideology, I also wanna jump into personal opinions. As it stands, I own 11 firearms: 5 handguns (each of different calibers ranging from 9mm - 50AE), 2 Kalashnikov platforms, 2 AR-15s, a Hunting Rifle, and a Shotgun. I'm a competitive shooter, I enjoy my time at the range, and I go to Alaska every few years to bag some food.
I don't just use them for hobbies, though. I'm also in line with 2 leftist gun clubs (which I will not disclose here for safety concerns), with whom I regularly train defensive tactics with, because if there's one thing I know about the American Right, it's that they're always armed, and won't hesitate to use violence.
In order to encourage my comrades to arm up and train, I often times feel the need to turn to some of the most horrific atrocities committed by the Far-right as an example... The Tree of Life Synagogue, The El Paso Walmart, The Buffalo Mall, and now most recently Club-Q in Colorado... Each of these mass shootings had one thing in common, and that's the targeting of minorities.
Whenever I find myself in a discussion with centrists and anti-gun Libbies, I always explain that armed minorities become harder to oppress. I also try to tell them that the right will become more wary of us when they find out we know how to use weapons. And to a larger extent, I would often say that these kinds of massacres can be deterred or stopped in their tracks if everyone and a sheep owned a piece of their own.
Hi u/Pretend-Cheek-7390 - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
If you are confused as to what you've said that may have triggered this response, please see [this article](https://www.autistichoya.com/2014/02/violence-linguistic-ableism.html) and the associated [glossary of ableist phrases](https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html) **BEFORE** contacting the moderators.
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I believe one of the core principles of being a real anarchist is believing that firearms are an essential part of life, and a vital part of maintaining sovereignty and freedom. I live in an area where it's all just typical hillbilly-fashioned fetishism and NRA-fueled paranoia, but I believe the 2nd Amendment to be outdated in this day and age.
What I do live by, however, is 3 magic words; "Under No Pretext". This is basically the Leftist version on guns being a right and not a commodity. These words were coined by none other than Karl Marx himself, where he shared his own thoughts on gun ownership.
He explicitly states: "Under No Pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered, and any attempt to disarm the working class must be frustrated, by force if necessary." Next time some MAGA-moron accuses you of being a dirty, freedom-hating, anti-gun commie, just use that sentence to dispute it.
But I don't just wanna draw from my ideology, I also wanna jump into personal opinions. As it stands, I own 11 firearms: 5 handguns (each of different calibers ranging from 9mm - 50AE), 2 Kalashnikov platforms, 2 AR-15s, a Hunting Rifle, and a Shotgun. I'm a competitive shooter, I enjoy my time at the range, and I go to Alaska every few years to bag some food.
I don't just use them for hobbies, though. I'm also in line with 2 leftist gun clubs (which I will not disclose here for safety concerns), with whom I regularly train defensive tactics with, because if there's one thing I know about the American Right, it's that they're always armed, and won't hesitate to use violence.
In order to encourage my comrades to arm up and train, I often times feel the need to turn to some of the most horrific atrocities committed by the Far-right as an example... The Tree of Life Synagogue, The El Paso Walmart, The Buffalo Mall, and now most recently Club-Q in Colorado... Each of these mass shootings had one thing in common, and that's the targeting of minorities.
Whenever I find myself in a discussion with centrists and anti-gun Libbies, I always explain that armed minorities become harder to oppress. I also try to tell them that the right will become more wary of us when they find out we know how to use weapons. And to a larger extent, I would often say that these kinds of massacres can be deterred or stopped in their tracks if everyone and a sheep owned a piece of their own.
Hi u/MaxDamage1 - Unfortunately your submission has been removed.
So-called "anarcho"-capitalists are not anarchists - anarchism and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible concepts. As such, discussion of "an"caps or their ideology are not an appropriate topic for this subreddit.
Don't just take our word for it though. Here's the so-called "father" of their ideology:
> *We must therefore conclude that we are not anarchists, and that those who call us anarchists are not on firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical.*
> —Murray Rothbard
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Hi u/MaxDamage1 - Unfortunately your submission has been removed.
So-called "anarcho"-capitalists are not anarchists - anarchism and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible concepts. As such, discussion of "an"caps or their ideology are not an appropriate topic for this subreddit.
Don't just take our word for it though. Here's the so-called "father" of their ideology:
> *We must therefore conclude that we are not anarchists, and that those who call us anarchists are not on firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical.*
> —Murray Rothbard
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Anarchism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anyone listen to the Everyday Anarchism podcast? opinions?I've been trying to branch out in my socio-political educational journey, and I stumbled across Everyday Anarchism. It looks interesting but I'm trying to be careful not to fall into the AnCap pipeline or end up 20 podcasts into something with bad theory or method. Anyone listen to it and have opinions? If it is bad, does anyone have good podcast recommendations?
The problem is that someone hunting for you is going to shoot you before you ever get your gun out to shoot them first (unless you're so paranoid that you never not have your gun in your hand, which feels like it wouldn't be a fun way to live), because the person hunting for you has already made the decision to shoot you before you're even aware of it and able to make the decision to shoot back/first.
That's why US cops murder so many innocent people: Because they're ~~taught~~ outright indoctrinated to always be ready to kill anyone they think might do them harm, so that they can make the split second decision to shoot before the other person does. Combine that with systemic racism, ableism and other forms of xenophobia and you get a deadly combination.
Same thing happened with the Somali officer in Minnesota who killed that white woman. He was fired and convicted so quick it made my head spin. I was shocked. There wasn’t even video.
I own a few and I practice when I can. Besides being a great tool for self and community defense, I think they're just fun to shoot.
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary" as a First Nations Canadian firearms are integral to our way of life (even more so for the far more rural reservations) and in keeping with our traditional ways. Oh and also the fact our colonialist government consistently tries to kill and suppress us and has so for the last few hundred years.
I think, in the U.S. anyway, a lot of us who grew up outside of urban environments don't look at guns the way urbanites or Europeans do. We went shooting for fun, we shot in Boy scouts when I was a kid, and we hunted to supplement our groceries. There were very few breaking and entry situations because you would probably get shot. I can remember riding around in our truck with a gun in the rack, and getting dropped at school, and no one thinking anything of it. Most of the "gun nut" types were vets. It never even occurred to me to shoot someone because it was entirely counterintuitive to all the safety training that was beaten into my head. When I moved to the city, Suddenly everyone talked about self-defense. We needed guns, because of fash. Fash wanted guns, because of us, and anyone of color. Our local gangs wanted them for gangster issues and so on. And of course, there were the pigs. Now I did occasionally shoot rats in some of the places I lived in, but for the most part the entire "gun culture" was entirely different. That's the problem. Guns are a tool, How we approach them is the problem, are they a tool, or an excuse? If you break in my house, I'd probably give you my tv and some anarchist literature, but if my family is threatened, things will be different. And finally, even if there were no guns, we'd simply build bombs.
Police and their apologists are a plague on society and need to be not only defunded, but completely disarmed and prohibited from ever working in any area with peoples' safety in their hands.
They called the [national guard and a ludicrous state of emergency while pretending to play nice](https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/2023/01/27/live-blog-protests-planned-downtown-atlanta-friday-night/) out of terror at protests over Tyre Nichols' [lynching by cops](https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-tyre-nichols-memphis-1844a7b20e3c7745db2b84677b86abee) + an [assassinated activist in ATL](https://crimethinc.com/2023/01/19/solidarity-with-the-movement-to-stop-cop-city-and-defend-weelaunee-forest) who was -- what else -- protesting police militarization and ecocide.
[Protest the police peacefully for murdering people](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/11/us/buffalo-police-push-protest-arbitration/index.html), and they'll brutalize you for whatever reason they want, or just [start a riot with agent provocateurs](https://thefreethoughtproject.com/be-the-change/autozone-window-smasher-agent-provocateur).
Invade the Capitol building but you're right wing? [Come on in folks!](https://youtu.be/4sRVN_mVBng)
[Try to criticize public officials for being racist, they'll send their goons after you](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/los-angeles-police-investigating-whether-council-members-recorded-ille-rcna54034)
Don't play Simon Says perfectly and the psycho on duty is feeling trigger happy? [You're dead and he gets a pension for "PTSD"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc
)
Try to help the wounded? [They'll shoot you dead.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/30/world/middleeast/gaza-medic-israel-shooting.html)
Protest your corrupt government and they'll [blind you](https://www.courthousenews.com/chilean-police-blind-hundreds-with-shotguns/) with "less lethal" weapons
Sit down and literally do nothing to protest rampant inequality? [They'll casually hose you down with pepper spray like they're watering their plants](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident#/media/File%3AUc_Davis_Pepper_Spray_Incident.jpg)
Wanna just be black and live in peace? [They'll blow up city blocks and shoot the survivors and punish nobody responsible](https://youtu.be/6RFW9KuL-nk)
Want the cops to "fight gang crime"? [The violence is coming from inside the force](https://youtu.be/VoF8RmohTB4)
Want to literally just feed the hungry like so many fake-ass American Christians are told in church? [You're catching a charge for this "crime"](
https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2022/12/27/18853618.php)
Fuck the police and colonial troops worldwide and every day. Antifascism means community self defense! No more gangsters in blue ruling our cities!
I do have to say that none of that has anything to do with what I said about naturally occurring physical hierarchies in terms of self defense. A strike from a 6’+ man is vastly more lethal than a punch from a smaller opponent. A bullet from either has the exact same velocity.
That said do you think the guns, or even just weapons are the reason these regions have hierarchies? Violence and fracture are systems driven effects imo. Munitions have a negligible effect on the existence of it outside of lethality. The world was more lethal and more Balkanized prior to the existence of firearms than it is today.
>I think of it more as tools created with the express purpose of defending my loved ones and my community.
Fair enough but I don't think that refutes the only purpose of them being to kill.
They don't call them defense rifles, it's "assault" for a reason.
All you're defending them from is other guns. And the way you defend is by using them to kill.
Hell yea, be armed, I carry when I go out, and am planning on going shooting latter today
>No other such tool exists afaik
Swords, spears, polearms, bows, slingshots, shillelagh.
Edit: How could I forget my beloved favorite low-tech killing tool, the atlatl. Atlatls don't get enough love and attention.
Police and their apologists are a plague on society and need to be not only defunded, but completely disarmed and prohibited from ever working in any area with peoples' safety in their hands.
They called the [national guard and a ludicrous state of emergency while pretending to play nice](https://www.atlantanewsfirst.com/2023/01/27/live-blog-protests-planned-downtown-atlanta-friday-night/) out of terror at protests over Tyre Nichols' [lynching by cops](https://apnews.com/article/law-enforcement-tyre-nichols-memphis-1844a7b20e3c7745db2b84677b86abee) + an [assassinated activist in ATL](https://crimethinc.com/2023/01/19/solidarity-with-the-movement-to-stop-cop-city-and-defend-weelaunee-forest) who was -- what else -- protesting police militarization and ecocide.
[Protest the police peacefully for murdering people](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/11/us/buffalo-police-push-protest-arbitration/index.html), and they'll brutalize you for whatever reason they want, or just [start a riot with agent provocateurs](https://thefreethoughtproject.com/be-the-change/autozone-window-smasher-agent-provocateur).
Invade the Capitol building but you're right wing? [Come on in folks!](https://youtu.be/4sRVN_mVBng)
[Try to criticize public officials for being racist, they'll send their goons after you](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/los-angeles-police-investigating-whether-council-members-recorded-ille-rcna54034)
Don't play Simon Says perfectly and the psycho on duty is feeling trigger happy? [You're dead and he gets a pension for "PTSD"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc
)
Try to help the wounded? [They'll shoot you dead.](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/30/world/middleeast/gaza-medic-israel-shooting.html)
Protest your corrupt government and they'll [blind you](https://www.courthousenews.com/chilean-police-blind-hundreds-with-shotguns/) with "less lethal" weapons
Sit down and literally do nothing to protest rampant inequality? [They'll casually hose you down with pepper spray like they're watering their plants](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident#/media/File%3AUc_Davis_Pepper_Spray_Incident.jpg)
Wanna just be black and live in peace? [They'll blow up city blocks and shoot the survivors and punish nobody responsible](https://youtu.be/6RFW9KuL-nk)
Want the cops to "fight gang crime"? [The violence is coming from inside the force](https://youtu.be/VoF8RmohTB4)
Want to literally just feed the hungry like so many fake-ass American Christians are told in church? [You're catching a charge for this "crime"](
https://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2022/12/27/18853618.php)
Fuck the police and colonial troops worldwide and every day. Antifascism means community self defense! No more gangsters in blue ruling our cities!
If you're comfortable using them, why wouldn't you? It's a valuable skill to have. If something bad happens, I'd rather be able to shoot back, than have to attempt to run away.
Its different depending on where you live.
I'm in Scotland. I'd never dream of owning a gun. I've never even seen one irl let alone held one. The very idea is repulsive, they're tools created with the soul purpose to kill. No other such tool exists afaik (unless we count nuclear warheads as tools)
If I was in America I'd probably buy a few. Definitely buying at least one. But based on my limited knowledge of guns I feel like certain ones are better for certain things. So I would probably own more than one. For example I might want some sort of scatter/wide spread powerful weapon for defending my home. But it would probably be too bulky to keep in the glove box of my car so would likely want some sort of compact thing like (I'm guessing?) A low caliber pistol or those snub nosed things.
Calling him the leader of the FAI (federazione anarchica informale) is wrong, he just took part in that organization. The FAI is organized in various cells that act independently around Italy and the entire world, but they don't have a leader, as far as i know. It's true that this organization uses violence for doing it's attacks, Cospito put a bomb in front of a police school and shot one guy at the legs, but i'm not sure how many they did since the 2000s.
I want to get trained. Especially after dodging a hate crime shooting situation in a public space.
I want to get trained. Especially after dodging a hate crime shooting situation in a public space.
Honestly, it just sounds like you're trying to top from the bottom. Im not arguing for a lack of structure, so that doesn't make sense.
I think your belief in them not wanting to limit their power would have weight if they also refused a general rule of no more than 5 minutes. They objected because it was not a good rule, as I'm sure you've been told over and over again.
You can acknowledge the dynamic by *acknowledging the dynamic*. Its a whole lot of beating around the bush and doesnt explain how limiting all people, which would also stop the men there from dominating the discussion and can be done via acknowledging the dynamic, is inferior to just having it for the men. You cant even explain how it isnt revenge, other than saying its not, despite almost everyone seeing it that way and telling you they see it that way. Which is everyone else's fault, apparently.
If not affirmative action. Its badly thought rules at a book club, not a college education or access to a lucrative career. A buzzword salad isn't going to change people's minds either. Also, no, people should not be penalised for their presence. Discrimination is still discrimination. As I said to my friend, shortly after they lost their job, "yes, I have heard of fighting fire with fire but you can't always do that. Especially youre a firefighter, you doughnut."
Honestly, if your goal is to chase people away from knocking down hierarchies and to make them associate real world problems with trivial stuff then youre going about it the right way. If that's not your goal, you should probably do something else.
It was more of a silly reference to how impossible you are and how I should have spotted it.
Well, most people don't like being told that they're being sexist. Thats not really my problem. The best way to ensure it doesnt happen is to not be sexist.
Youre not doing anything constructive about it. Youre just doing something, yes. However, its A politicians syllogism:
we must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this.
You cant even defend its own merit but keep restating what its supposed to combat. You cant fight sexism with sexism. I notice its conveniently a group you wouldn't fall into as well.
Let's get right to it then:
Other than the literal colour, define "white"
Exactly how "white" are we talking here?
Is, for example, an upper middle class, college educated, cis-black, neurotypical man more excluded from "the conversation" and spoken over/oppressed etc. than, say, a working class, neurodivergent cis-"white" man?
How are you measuring this?
I what way do you beleive you are simply not looking to be the new oppressor, despite literally wanting to bring in a new form of badly thought out oppression against an outgroup?
Given the above, how are you not vanguarding and manipulating to make yourself you own little fiefdom?
I'm not sure but I always think about the worst possible outcome that could happen if I called the police.
Your decapitated body scenario: they blame me and lock me up for life.
Kidnapping scenario:. They bust in guns blazing to the kidnappers house and the child gets shot and killed... Or even worse they bust into the wrong house and do the same.
Cool or cringe?
Title
I use a walking stick, and I legit worry about this becoming a problem when I go to America to visit a family member (haven't been back since the accident). What if some cop thinks it's a weapon? What if they tell me to put my hands up, and I can't because if I let go of my stick I might fall over? They shot that one guy because he tried to pull up his pants, they're so trigger-happy you don't know what will set them off.
Insect Populations Collapsing All Around the World, Yet Conservation Efforts Are Ignoring Them
For that we require to shoot back.
ok racist
ok sexist,
please leave and go to the incel and right wing boards and leave us alone.
Was this meant to be ironic?
Resorting to petty name calling isnt helping anything but I do love the idea of so called "experts" such as yourself thinking you can fight sexism with sexism. Well done you for thinking of an othering term that circumvents the bot though. You must be very proud.
Its not affirmative action. Its not a look to increase inclusivety, additional investment in communities or anything like that. Its exclusively, under the guise of affirmative action. An "expert" like you should know the difference.
You are aware that fighting fire with fire, in the real world, it counter productive at best right?
As you've clearly shown, its not about fixing things. Its about getting on your high horse, feeling superior over other people and having a stick to hit them with. Youd probably be a fascist, if you thought they'd accept you.
You cant fight sexism and rascsism with badly thought out, arbitrary racist and sexist rules. Its just getting even and wanting to be the new oppressor. You cant even hide it.
There is nothing wrong with "no one is allowed to dominate the conversation. This rule has been brought i specifically because that what cis white men have done throughout history."
"Sexism and rascism is fine when it happens to other people" is your argument.
just say you dont know shit about racism (or sexism) in history or contemporary racism (or sexism). just say it so we can all move on.there is a reason for affirmative action- the reason is there is no way to get over the hump of racism/sexism without it. but dolts like you LOVE to think you are a "thinker" cause this is more 'rational' to you--- honey, you got a whole lot to learn. you sound very 'all lives matter' with your ignorance
kaos roolzDoes anybody know where I can find the files that were in the Kaosroolz archive?
Flores Magón adopted the term liberal in order to not scare people into his movement.
Besides in Mexico's history most of its most devoted thinkers, revolutionaries and politicians that fought against colonialist and tyrants associated themselves with liberalism which was the most left wing you could get at the time.
For example in order to depose dictator Santa Anna and create the Leyes de Reforma which ended the church's power in the country the liberal party was formed. That identity then carried on two fight the French during the second intervention.
Nowadays the terms is used entirely different in modern politics, but at the time it made sense for anarchist and communist to be part of that liberal tradition.
Edit: a word to help make the last paraghraph make more sense.
kaos roolzDoes anybody know where I can find the files that were in the Kaosroolz archive?
For that we require to shoot back.
Calling him the leader of the FAI (federazione anarchica informale) is wrong, he just took part in that organization. The FAI is organized in various cells that act independently around Italy and the entire world, but they don't have a leader, as far as i know. It's true that this organization uses violence for doing it's attacks, Cospito put a bomb in front of a police school and shot one guy at the legs, but i'm not sure how many they did since the 2000s.
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Hi u/TJ5897 - Unfortunately your submission has been removed.
So-called "anarcho"-capitalists are not anarchists - anarchism and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible concepts. As such, discussion of "an"caps or their ideology are not an appropriate topic for this subreddit.
Don't just take our word for it though. Here's the so-called "father" of their ideology:
> *We must therefore conclude that we are not anarchists, and that those who call us anarchists are not on firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical.*
> —Murray Rothbard
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Hi u/TJ5897 - Unfortunately your submission has been removed.
So-called "anarcho"-capitalists are not anarchists - anarchism and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible concepts. As such, discussion of "an"caps or their ideology are not an appropriate topic for this subreddit.
Don't just take our word for it though. Here's the so-called "father" of their ideology:
> *We must therefore conclude that we are not anarchists, and that those who call us anarchists are not on firm etymological ground, and are being completely unhistorical.*
> —Murray Rothbard
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Anarchism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Arguing with 'Libertarians/ancaps/procapitalist libs' feels like I'm giving a history lesson (vent)It's exhausting trying to get through to folks even in person because before I can even explain the ideas behind socialism or anarchism I have to first counter a bunch of brianwashing and give a rough lesson on labor history and geopolitics from the past like 120 years to begin to explain horizontal democracy worker's co-ops/councils, etc. If I jump straight into the principles behind socialist and anarchist thought I just get called idealistic or crazy.
I use a walking stick, and I legit worry about this becoming a problem when I go to America to visit a family member (haven't been back since the accident). What if some cop thinks it's a weapon? What if they tell me to put my hands up, and I can't because if I let go of my stick I might fall over? They shot that one guy because he tried to pull up his pants, they're so trigger-happy you don't know what will set them off.
Its different depending on where you live.
I'm in Scotland. I'd never dream of owning a gun. I've never even seen one irl let alone held one. The very idea is repulsive, they're tools created with the soul purpose to kill. No other such tool exists afaik (unless we count nuclear warheads as tools)
If I was in America I'd probably buy a few. Definitely buying at least one. But based on my limited knowledge of guns I feel like certain ones are better for certain things. So I would probably own more than one. For example I might want some sort of scatter/wide spread powerful weapon for defending my home. But it would probably be too bulky to keep in the glove box of my car so would likely want some sort of compact thing like (I'm guessing?) A low caliber pistol or those snub nosed things.
Hehe, haven't seen the V man mentioned
read and be a critical thinker, stop sucking on big tech's titties
up up and away
[here's a link to a source ](https://namiillinois.org/half-people-killed-police-disability-report/)
>I am of the viewpoint that power comes from control of resources. Some will argue that power flows from the barrel of a gun. I disagree.
...how do you think "control" is established?
>Class is still the primary important factor here though, everything else fits into a larger framework built around class right? Class is the primary factor.
classes (i.e. property relationships) are a reification of patriarchy, which is the only cultural phenomenon present in the formation of *all* known states. patriarchy cannot be adequately addressed so long as the classes built to protect it exist, which are enforced by violence.
machismo hindered many of the 60s radical movements, and comrades being onboarded in rojava go through training to "kill the man in your head". they have gone beyond vague injunctions to "abolish the patriarchy" by actually mandating gender parity and parallel institutions in the struggle. the capitalists still exercise the most power, but we have to actively engage with other dimensions of domination simultaneously in our class struggle if we want a durable society that won't relapse into hierarchy.
identities don't automatically grant wisdom, but we ought be going out of our way to ensure different identities are able to exercise equal autonomy/power in our collectives and projects. there is a danger of institutionalizing identitarian power relationships by formalizing them in decision making structures (i.e. to keep us thinking of eachother as distinct identities rather than humans with superficial differences), but it's hard for me to see a way to adequately address those relationships as they exist now without doing so.
it's important to keep in mind that all of these things are just abstractions, and we are all always just one decision away from achieving a new consensus reality where identities and property just don't exist anymore.
Police recruitment tests preference IQ below 106, lack of empathy, and fearless dominance.
AKA Psychopaths of low intelligence.
Apparently the automod is just like these cops, trying to coercively control comments.
> Apparently the automod is just like these cops, trying to coercively control comments.
Oh boo hoo, you weren't allowed to blame being a shitty person on whatever ableist slur you decided to trot out, or whatever fucking imaginary eugenics IQ bullshit you unironically buy into.
Shove off and stop punching down at disabled people because it makes you feel like a big fucking man.
I'm not sure but I always think about the worst possible outcome that could happen if I called the police.
Your decapitated body scenario: they blame me and lock me up for life.
Kidnapping scenario:. They bust in guns blazing to the kidnappers house and the child gets shot and killed... Or even worse they bust into the wrong house and do the same.
> Apparently the automod is just like these cops, trying to coercively control comments.
Oh boo hoo, you weren't allowed to blame being a shitty person on whatever ableist slur you decided to trot out, or whatever fucking imaginary eugenics IQ bullshit you unironically buy into.
Shove off and stop punching down at disabled people because it makes you feel like a big fucking man.
If you're comfortable using them, why wouldn't you? It's a valuable skill to have. If something bad happens, I'd rather be able to shoot back, than have to attempt to run away.
Hi u/alrtight - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
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just say you dont know shit about racism (or sexism) in history or contemporary racism (or sexism). just say it so we can all move on.
there is a reason for affirmative action- the reason is there is no way to get over the hump of racism/sexism without it. but idiots like you LOVE to think you are a "thinker" cause you think this is more 'rational'--- honey, you got a whole lot to learn. you sound like 'all lives matter' with your ignorance
Hi u/alrtight - Your comment has been automatically removed for containing a slur or another term that violates the [AOP](https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/aop). These include gendered slurs (including those referring to genitalia) ***as well as ableist insults which denigrate intelligence, neurodivergence, etc.***
If you are confused as to what you've said that may have triggered this response, please see [this article](https://www.autistichoya.com/2014/02/violence-linguistic-ableism.html) and the associated [glossary of ableist phrases](https://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-and-terms-to-avoid.html) **BEFORE** contacting the moderators.
No further action has been taken at this time. You're not banned, etc. Your comment will be reviewed by the moderators and handled accordingly. If it was removed by mistake, please reach out to the moderators to have the comment reinstated.
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just say you dont know shit about racism (or sexism) in history or contemporary racism (or sexism). just say it so we can all move on.
there is a reason for affirmative action- the reason is there is no way to get over the hump of racism/sexism without it. but idiots like you LOVE to think you are a "thinker" cause this is more 'rational' to you--- honey, you got a whole lot to learn. you soun dstupid as fuck
If it becomes too successful, govt. might tax and ordinance it to death or Waco it.
[here's a link to a source ](https://namiillinois.org/half-people-killed-police-disability-report/)
https://namiillinois.org/half-people-killed-police-disability-report/
>I am of the viewpoint that power comes from control of resources. Some will argue that power flows from the barrel of a gun. I disagree.
...how do you think "control" is established?
>Class is still the primary important factor here though, everything else fits into a larger framework built around class right? Class is the primary factor.
classes (i.e. property relationships) are a reification of patriarchy, which is the only cultural phenomenon present in the formation of *all* known states. patriarchy cannot be adequately addressed so long as the classes built to protect it exist, which are enforced by violence.
machismo hindered many of the 60s radical movements, and comrades being onboarded in rojava go through training to "kill the man in your head". they have gone beyond vague injunctions to "abolish the patriarchy" by actually mandating gender parity and parallel institutions in the struggle. the capitalists still exercise the most power, but we have to actively engage with other dimensions of domination simultaneously in our class struggle if we want a durable society that won't relapse into hierarchy.
identities don't automatically grant wisdom, but we ought be going out of our way to ensure different identities are able to exercise equal autonomy/power in our collectives and projects. there is a danger of institutionalizing identitarian power relationships by formalizing them in decision making structures (i.e. to keep us thinking of eachother as distinct identities rather than humans with superficial differences), but it's hard for me to see a way to adequately address those relationships as they exist now without doing so.
it's important to keep in mind that all of these things are just abstractions, and we are all always just one decision away from achieving a new consensus reality where identities and property just don't exist anymore.
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QuestionWhy is everybody on the radical left to patronizing?
I would say I agree with most people here except for the patronizing attitude they have toward Gay/Bi people.
We get treated like we dont know whats good for us and that our opinions are not really the point here.
Like, is this sub just filled with Alt right trolls or what?
Neo-Nazi Pedophilic Cult Member Allegedly Coerced Minors to Make Child Porn
The police can suck itThat’s all
Cops being cops, in some places this has come out in the mainstream as being an epidemic because so many innocent dogs were being murdered by the hands of police.
I cant tell if this is a joke
Like most murderous sociopaths, cops love killing small animals. They all probably wet the bed and start small fires, too
Hey, I'm from the UK and really don't know loads about existing American projects but a friend who is an incredible Cooperator and activist and is currently setting up a commune in Darlington in England did a tour of cooperatives and communes in North America a couple of years ago to learn about their practices to be able to take back to her own commune. Bits of it are documented here: np://leedscath.wixsite.com/northamericantour/tour-diary
I've not read much of it myself as I talked to her in person about it so don't know how up-to-date it is but it might have names for nearby projects, or have some names of projects you could potentially learn from
Thanks for sharing your thoughts . A lot of what you were saying about organizing and building constructive communities resonates with me and also reminds of a book I just finished called [Elite Capture](https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1867-elite-capture). Táíwò also highlights the Combahee River Collective and how the modern form of liberal identity politics centers the marginalized but defers all responsibility to dismantling the capitalist structures that continues to marginalize them.
Woke people.
Absolutely hate woke bullshit.
Like I said to the other person, generally somebody who makes being LGBTQ+ or being pro BLM or some shit their entire personality
Jeez, people here so toxic.
I state I dont like people using LGBTQIA+ as their entire personality and being woke, I proceed to get the comment removed and downvoted to shit.
Good to know people here care not the opinions of those they claim to defend.
Bisexual man btw.
Suffered from ANCAP rule here in AU for decades.
Gotta love it.
Like that other comment said it is by [Maruyama Ōkyo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maruyama_%C5%8Ckyo) but I believe it is a brush painting rather than woodblock. I can't find the higher resolution image I had but [here is a link](https://i.imgur.com/XEMtGCd.jpg) to the full image.
The Pope actually studied what Jesus had to say, which makes him inherently more Left than 90% of people.
This kid comes to an anarchist sub, with anarchism meaning anti-hierarchy, DEFINITELY including the government/state and claims we're being told what to do by the government?
I object to ableism because it's disgusting, not cause some 'gobmint' told me to. I'm pretty sure most of us here feel the same.
This comment is almost as cringey as the edgelord title, "cope," cope
Y'know how I can tell you get offended easy? Because you get offended easy. Good thing you've got big daddy govt telling you what to be offended about, keep up the good work!
F16 Falcon Jet: a Key to Winning the War? || The Brief
Also just wanna add, reason I hate it is its patronizing as fuck to have my sexuality be used as a fucking personality title on some twitter warriors profile page
They would if they could. Their frontal lobes never developed.