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The Apocalypse is Upon Us
The french energy department did a study last year that found the global EROEI for all fossil fuels was 6.6:1. With solar and wind at 10-20:1 the best way to keep the poszi scheme going is to use all fossil fuels for renewable production. :)
hmmmm
>As a byproduct of the ethoxylation process, a route to some ingredients found in cleansing and moisturizing products, dioxane can contaminate cosmetics and personal care products such as deodorants, perfumes, shampoos, toothpastes and mouthwashes.[25][26] The ethoxylation process makes the cleansing agents, such as sodium laureth sulfate and ammonium laureth sulfate, less abrasive and offers enhanced foaming characteristics. 1,4-Dioxane is found in small amounts in some cosmetics, a yet unregulated substance used in cosmetics in both China and the U.S.[27] Research has found the chemical in ethoxylated raw ingredients and in off-the-shelf cosmetic products. The Environmental Working Group (EWG) found that 97% of hair relaxers, 57% of baby soaps and 22 percent of all products in Skin Deep, their database for cosmetic products, are contaminated with 1,4-dioxane.[28]
from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4-Dioxane
That sounds like an overdone TV show plot.
You sound like a priest talking about his god. No evidence, of course. It's not much better than the "Q-anon" people. Or maybe the AI is Q for you?
Once it's "good enough", I would guess that most people won't bother to verify things. Example: News headlines. At least half of people won't even read the articles and just accept the spoon-fed headlines that fit the news outlet's narrative. Fewer still search for a second or third source on the story. Another example is search engines.
When you are protesting pension reform but still take your breaks your union fought for.
Why isn't the government working on slowing climate change?Climate change cannot be stopped, but it can be slowed. For obvious reasons, slowing it would be a pretty good thing. Why isn't the government helping? I understand that it can be hard, but it is literally killing countless people, and more and more harm will be done.
#DigitalIsolation is one. If you are unemployed and rely on your phone and it stops working, it's hard to recover.
Then, there are all these solutions, but why no improvement? Fr
1776, no improvement.
All men created equal, no improvement.
Civil war, no improvement.
Civil rights movement, no improvement.
2023 a.d. War on the Woke, ok, finally some improvement! Wait...
People like you are gravediggers of human civilization.
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We are living in a different world. It almost seems like the 90s never existed....
We need to bring back the 90's.....
lol
Minnesota had tax rebates for filmmakers? That's cool.
/r/Superstonk
Check it out. The shorts have been paying fees to borrow more shares every day. currently they are paying around 35-40% on every share in fees to borrow. They also pay to keep their shorts open because they are underwater. There is a library's worth of resources and information in the sidebar. People will be very helpful if you ask genuine questions.
Currently, the people of that sub have bought something like 30% of Gamestop, or about 50% of the available shares (those not held by insiders). That's almost $2,000,000,000. 2 BILLION. From average people all over the world.
We are a pivotal moment right now.... It is scary when you see how the media is portraying the protests in France. (These people are fighting for what is right.)
,....and how the media is portraying the protests here...(cop city and protests to come)...
Pivotal time, for sure but I agree, this is not a sign of collapse but rather of a country ruled by the rich
Fuck off
I'm sorry. I need a baguette in any video to be considered "Francois". Lol. (Irony and humour)
If it means keeping the pension age where its at, then by all means.
People should also be talking about the possibility that those pension funds do not exist, as in bankrupt.
Classic
You Can Have the Blue Pill or the Red Pill, and We’re Out of Blue Pills[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/opinion/yuval-harari-ai-chatgpt.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/opinion/yuval-harari-ai-chatgpt.html)
link should be the non-paywall version, if not, disable javascript in your browser.
You are the master of your inner self and your mental health. No one else is going to care about you. You need to take control of your life and stop complaining.
You're a piece of shit
The person above is right! You have no right to say we are idiots for prioritizing our entertainment over the shitty state of the world.
And why do they call it global warming if it's actually colder outside!
This climate change nonsense is bullshit!
AmiRiGht?!?!
What would it mean for humans to live in a world where a large percentage of stories, melodies, images, laws, policies and tools are shaped by nonhuman intelligence[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/opinion/yuval-harari-ai-chatgpt.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/24/opinion/yuval-harari-ai-chatgpt.html)
this link should be to the non-paywalled access, but if not, then just kill javascript in your browser to see the article.
What does that have anything to do with a deadly tornado outbreak? How does politics have any connection to the weather? Fucking idiot. Have some compassion.
This is such a braindead take. Have some compassion you fucking loser.
No one is saying that you are going to die young. With or without collapse we could all die young.
It's the collapse of industrial society, our unsustainable way of life.
Will people die because of e.g. climate change related disasters? They already are and will, and it will get worse.
Does collapse mean human extinction? No, but it could. It does mean a decrease in human population.
But your comments are screaming into a void, this sub won't take it seriously as it is literally about collapse.
Again, just stop viewing this sub, don't watch the news, don't pay attention to the economy, pretend the 6th mass extinction isn't happening, fossil fuels are forever and don't cause any environmental damage, we can feed 8 billion without energy dense oil etc., never mind the increasing natural disasters and pestilence... Be an ostrich, and I mean it -- if it comforts you go ahead, collapse doesn't change it's mind because 1 person doesn't like the trajectory that we are on. Guess who also doesn't like it? All the species that we are driving to extinction.
Sorry but it's futile coming to a place like this and begging for mercy. We're just paying attention to what's going on here and it obviously isn't pretty. Just "don't look up," distract yourself.
Just try to enjoy your life. Paying attention to this stuff obviously is interfering with that. Yeah it's one of those things where you can't unsee it, but... If it affects you this much, continuing to be upset over it does no good.
I picture the guy on the left thinking "Don't look at the fire, just listen to her and act like you really care. Don't look at the fire."
they will result in the total collapse of late capitalist civilization though, and human extinction, assuming none of our other problems beat them to the punch. two biggest concerns have to be the end of the aerosol masking effect when industry collapses, causing a rapid amount of global warming in 5 days - 6 weeks. then there's the 450 nuclear reactors currently operating that'll cease to be maintained, definitely won't be decommissioned properly (takes decades), and will all meltdown as the temperatures rise. when they all meltdown, that's *goodbye ozone layer*.
there is no "much further out," even if it wasn't for the above problems, we are in the middle of the sixth mass extinction and it can't be stopped. humans were not around for any of the previous five, and we will not survive this one. we're at the top of the food chain and dependent on every level in the chain beneath us, and those levels are dying off faster than we can catalog them. in mass extinctions, the most complex organisms die first and only the simplest survive. it's a wonder we've made it this far.
This sub is becoming extremely toxic. Imagine reading about natural disaster deaths in 2023 and your first thought being to comment "I bet they were all religious bigots and right-wing extremists. So serves them right". You have no idea who the casualties are, get off your high horses you condescending assholes.
Emp & NukeIf Russia and China had a covert plan along the lines of a nuke from Russia and an Emp from China, being synced, (assuming they detonated in the US) wouldn't that pretty much be game, set, match for us?
> Ah, Mississippi, a stronghold of anti-science and theocratic bootlickers.
Why would He do this?
Like, what’s the justification for Him evoking ever-increasing natural disasters?
"...we can reach a state where people won't care because they don't know that it's happening."
They won't care because of ignorance it's true, but well before that they may also not care because of delusion and disbelief.
The breakdown of shared reality and systematic undermining of facts has been gaining steam rapidly since at least 2016. At some point, most likely very soon if it hasn't happened already, it will become largely impossible to distinguish reality from imagination, speculation, lies, rumors, etc.
I think this process was set in motion a decade or more prior, mostly due to the unregulated rise of social media, the widespread adoption of smartphones, and faster internet connections allowing for extensive use of visual media. Disinformation has thrived as a consequence, but also...
I'm not sure how to express this, so I'll indulge in throwing words at the wall and see what sticks:
Curated realities, information silos, atomization of worldviews, technologically driven solipsism, schizotypal personality becoming the norm?
Something like that.
At any rate, IMO deep fakes will be the killing blow for addressing the problem of climate change well before communications blackout. Once people can 'see' video footage that supports whatever they would like to believe, then they can point to that as 'proof' and disbelieve what anyone else says. They may even come to disbelieve their own lived experience and their own eyes in favor of a simulated reality that makes them happier. (I'm seeing a lot of 'early adopters' of this attitude lately. How about you?)
For individuals that are more social, I think they will actually become even more delusional. Psychological studies have found repeatedly that many people's perception of reality is so strongly mediated by peer pressure that their brain scans show activation in portions of the brain devoted to perception rather than emotion when they give in to the group's mistaken views.
So, as people continue to self-segregate into ideologically bonded tribes, their shared picture of 'reality' will only become more and more convincing, no matter what actually happens. Mass psychosis seems imminent...Hm, you know what this reminds me of? That story about the Tower of Babel. It also makes me think about the MK-Ultra experiments with mild altering substances. Maybe having 'the sum total of all human knowledge' at your fingertips is just as confusing and dangerous, lol.
The collected pro-tobacco essays of Mike Pence will be required reading for graduation.
They sure like their politics, eh whatever we are in one league anyway. Even if big brother is a bit demented at times family is family
Ah, Mississippi, a stronghold of anti-science and theocratic bootlickers. I wonder how many of them believe Brandon is to blame. Imagine your final thoughts are cursing the democrats as you're sucked up out of your trailer.
Hah, this is such a thinly veiled way of saying they want to teach that climate change is not real.
By the time these kids are in their mid teens it won't be possible to ignore it and the other "side" will just move the goal posts.
Here's how it'll go
Climate change isn't happening.
And if it is, it isn't that bad.
And if it was, it isn't a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean for it to happen.
And if I did, fuck you, hurr durrr I'm gonna chug some horse pills, rectally insert a UV dildo and be outsmarted by what's left of the climate ravaged potato crop.
I would leave this sub, all of your comments sound like it's taking a toll on your mental health. It's okay for you to ignore all of this if it's hurting your well-being. Collapse isn't going to go away, but you can suspend it in mind. Take care of yourself.
Eventually it's possible to succumb to acceptance. Most people go through denial, then reality slips in a teeny tiny amount and they start smoking techno-hopium, then the bigger picture sets in and there may be despair and grief... The last step is acceptance, and you can find a bit of solace in that if you just take deep breaths.
It's okay to be scared, but if it is seriously damaging your well-being, just quit peeking in this sub, do not watch the news etc. Might have to lie to yourself, but if it makes you happy it makes you happy.
I would leave this sub, all of your comments sound like it's taking a toll on your mental health. It's okay for you to ignore all of this if it's hurting your well-being. Collapse isn't going to go away, but you can suspend it in mind. Take care of yourself.
Eventually it's possible to succumb to acceptance. Most people go through denial, then reality slips in a teeny tiny amount and they start smoking techno-hopium, then the bigger picture sets in and there may be despair and grief... The last step is acceptance, and you can find a bit of solace in that if you just take deep breaths.
It's okay to be scared, but if it is seriously damaging your well-being, just quit peeking in this sub, do not watch the news etc. Might have to lie to yourself, but if it makes you happy it makes you happy.
Nuclear Assault - Critical Mass
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7wntm7QVXQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7wntm7QVXQ)
This song is from 1989. This band was able to foresee all this 34 years ago. The lyrics were really prophetic for their age.
​
The bio-sphere, the place we live
It seems like we don't give a damn
Other species flushed down the tubes
We need another race to rape
The way we live we will destroy
Every other living thing
'Til none are left except our race
And then we will destroy ourselves
​
Another oil spill
Atomic waste displaced
Another forest dies
​
Bring on the acid rain
Slightly insane, the type of greed
That makes a world unfit for life
Toxic wastes destroy the seas
While poison gas pollutes the air
A waste of life, while no one cares
The world becomes a giant tomb
Critical mass will be achieved
And ruins will be all that's left
​
Another oil spill
Atomic waste displaced
Another forest dies
​
A Hell on Earth, what we create
Dragging life to death with us
All living things destroyed or used
By shortsighted human beings
We do these things, let them be done
Apathy creates despair
The damage done will be too great
The world wounded beyond repair
​
Another oil spill
Atomic waste displaced
Another forest dies
Inaction? No. While it's unlikely our action can weigh enough to countermand the inaction of those in power, we do still have a duty to Do No Harm.
Pretty soon the only thing you'll be able to trust at all is face-to-face interactions and events that you've witnessed personally with your own two eyes.
Disagreeing with other people over anything read or seen through media will then become like two people with schizophrenia arguing about their delusions.
Everything is coming full circle, isn't it?
My kids aren’t learning anything in school. My high school son told me they all checked out after the pandemic started and they just copy lesson plans from other teachers and hope no one cares enough to call them out. He listens to podcasts all day. My middle school daughter is in the same boat.
My point is public school isn’t where kids are getting their education anymore it’s the internet.
Arts and entertainment are the least of humanity’s problems. Singling out Taylor Swift fans reeks of misogyny. Direct your anger toward the oil companies. The political corruption. The increasing wealth gap. Lots of stuff to be mad about before people liking music.
This is the WSJ, right? The mouthpiece of the omnicidal civilization we all labour under?
"Cool story bro"
This is the bougie ruling class telling us that we're denialists if we don't jump for joy at their non solutions to the problem.
Let's see how many of these WSJ fuckers have their fingers in the pies of arms and oil.
They piss in your face and demand praise, fuck em.
Yeah, but I was actually thinking since there will be nothing left to eat, so I would probably have to eat my own flesh, but I remembered that might taste real BAD. I said to myself. That's basic chemistry :(
I advocate extinction, as that’s the outcome of our hubris
Degrowth is a nonstarter politically nor will population shrink in the foreseeable future
F?
Is this more of the "not being a cheerleader for capitalist modernization/greening with technofixes that maintain Business As Usual makes you a climate change denier"?
Let's see..
>When Sean Youra was 26 years old and working as an engineer, he started watching documentaries about climate change. Youra, who was struggling with depression and the loss of a family member, was horrified by what he learned about melting ice and rising extreme weather. He started spending hours on YouTube, watching videos made by fringe scientists who warned that the world was teetering on the edge of societal collapse — or even near-term human extinction. Youra started telling his friends and family that he was convinced that climate change couldn’t be stopped, and humanity was doomed.
Ah, yes, *I'm a good writer because I include anecdotes to make a nice believable story for the uncritical readers*.
>And some scientists and experts worry that their defeatism — which could undermine efforts to take action — may be just as dangerous as climate denial.
By all means, provide the studies. It should be within the realm of sociology, maybe anthropology.
>“It’s fair to say that recently many of us climate scientists have spent more time arguing with the doomers than with the deniers,” said Zeke Hausfather, a contributing author to the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change and climate research lead at the payments company Stripe.
lol, the ending of that paragraph really cancelled everything else nicely.
> like retired ecologist Guy McPherson — who claim that human extinction, or at least the breakdown of society, is imminent.
He's an outlier doomer.
>“‘Twelve years to save the planet’ was actually: We have 12 years to cut global emissions in half to stay consistent with a 1.5C scenario,” Hausfather explained. “Then ‘12 years to save the planet’ becomes interpreted by the public as: If we don’t stop climate change in 12 years, something catastrophic happens.”
1.5℃ becomes, after intensive BAU, 2℃ soon enough, and then it gets worse as the risk of crossing tipping points increases exponentially. Losing the 2030 deadline means that the window to make changes is shrinking faster and faster, and the accumulated risks that end up in the near-term and mid-term future with a high certainty are getting more probable. It's like detecting a cancer too late; sure, it's not in metastasis yet, but the closer it is to that, the more severe and damaging the interventions have to be and the smaller the chance for successful outcome.
The scientist there is talking about climate, that doesn't make him an expert in psychology or sociology or politics or other ways of understanding human behavior at different scales.
Let me put this in a simple way that can be understood statistically: the more we fail to adapt and mitigate, the more we fail to adapt and mitigate. The COPs do not show evidence of *performance*, but of failure. Failure to transform is the most probable scenario (BAU), so that is the rational position. It is not rational to rely on hope that some researchers will discover or invent real solutions to the planetary hard problems in the future - what that is is called **gambling**. And since it's gambling the entire biosphere, us included, it's some type of Russian roulette game. If you're gambling with everyone's lives, you better have everyone's consent for such decisions.
The planet is not in some stable state for us to keep trying different passwords for a lost account for the next century. The situation is not improving, GHG emissions are going in the opposite direction, as is the temperature. The probability of a sudden and surprising turnaround due to some technofix is very small. Meanwhile, we have more concrete / weighty promises for new fossil fuel extraction; those are likely to happen.
>“It’s not like 1.9C is not an existential risk and 2.1C is,” Hausfather said. “It’s more that we’re playing Russian roulette with the climate.” Every increase in temperature, that is, makes the risks of bad impacts that much higher.
Hah.
>In 2018, he briefly considered quitting his job to travel the world — hoping to see what he could before society and the natural world collapsed. Slowly, though, he started getting involved in local climate groups, and when he attended a meeting in Alameda for the California city’s climate plan, something clicked. “I think that for me was key,” he said. “It made me start realizing the power of good policy.” Now 32, he has earned a master’s degree in environmental science and policy and works as the climate action coordinator for the California towns of San Anselmo and Fairfax.
Lol, talk about a non-sequitur. Yeah, you feel better when you do actions. It's not a secret. It also doesn't mean the problems went away. Unfortunately, actions within the *BAU* system are already accounted for by the system, and they'll be used to grow the system even more (I'm referring to the professional NGO sector). That's Capitalist Realism. In practice, improvements in GHG reductions in some places will be used to increase GHG emissions in others (that's the carbon trading market, but it also applies to non-market policy balancing).
>“It’s a question of risk, not known catastrophe,” Hausfather said.
Thank you, another useless paragraph.
>But finding the balance between constructive worry — that is, concern that motivates you to do something — and a sort of fatalistic doom is difficult. Nowadays, climate scientists try to emphasize that climate change isn’t a pass/fail test: Every tenth and hundredth of a degree of warming avoided matters.
If by activism they mean monkeywrenching and property destruction, sure.
>For his part, Youra has advice for those who are suffering from the same sort of fatalism that he once felt. “Stop engaging excessively with negative climate change content online and start engaging in your community,” he said. “You can be one of those voices showing there is support for the solutions.”
Yeah, in case the pandemic wasn't enough for you, go connect with the community around and discover the depths of human ignorance, stupidity, callousness. That'll do wonders for your mental health.
Wow
Wherever you are, or are thinking of going to, make sure you have water. It's spring here, and it's raining, raining, raining. My two IBC barrels are *FULL*. I would like at least one, perhaps two or even three more, spread around the property, just for peace of mind. Probably won't happen this year. But, over the next two or three, it likely/hopefully will.
The second thing is to think about how/where you'll find sources of nutrients for your soil in the future. Keeping animals around can be a source of meat, money when you sell them, and at least as importantly as anything else, their manure is compost for your gardens.
Whatever plants you grow, you will be depleting the soil year over year. In order to have and maintain good souls you'll need to be amending it. Animal manure - from sheep, cows, chickens, goats, horses, pigs, whatever - is *the* traditional, and sustainable way to do so.
Rotating your pasture is the next, important thing to do/think about. Keep your animals off of sections for months in order to let it regrow and, also to help cut off the cycle of worms in your herds. Ours is currently just two large sections, but I'd like to get it set up so it can be moved into 4 or more. The more, the better.
Finally... If you aren't already farming, and think you'll be able to just pick up and start post-collapse and be fine. Gods, but do you have a lot of hard lessons coming. Gardening is *hard*. Crops fail. Not everything works in all places. Some things take *years* to become established and producing.
If you think gardening is hard though... Fuck me if raising animals isn't harder. My mantra right now is *know better, do better*. We lost our first three lambs. The last two seem to be doing ok, so far, along with a goat kid. It's our first year with sheep, but we've had goats for years. Didn't think they'd be this damned different. Chickens I feel like we have mostly down - though we just buy chicks from hatcheries, so maybe that's cheating.
Anyhow. Point is, if you have some illusion, that causes you read a book or five on gardening, homesteading, farming, etc you can just pick up and do it? You're delusional at best.
Smart technology/smart homesThis felt like the right place for this. I’m currently housesitting for a friend’s family as I sometimes do, and every time I come here I notice this issue more. I can only assume they’re a reflection of most middle-class families in America, and maybe even have less smart technology than average.
These people’s home is totally wired with tech: several Alexas that control the lights and TV; a smart TV; security cameras; a wifi-enabled thermostat and washer and dryer; a digital lock on the door; even a faucet that tells them the temperature of the water.
One time when I was here, I did a load of laundry (dog had soiled the bed) and got a text from the family asking why I was doing laundry—this is how I found out the machines were wifi-enabled. I was like, how the hell did they know I did laundry? It was creepy.
I’m a zillennial... I grew up with dial-up internet, and didn’t have a smartphone until I was a senior in high school. I only just made peace with my smartphone, after going through a phase of returning to a flip phone. It’s personally worried me, even if I don’t see the end goal of it (help or harm?), to see just how pervasive this glut of smart technology has been, enticing my Gen X parents more than anyone. Even people who I thought would never do it have gotten smart watches, which record a startling quantity of data on the user.
I drive, and will probably always drive, a car from the 90s because it doesn’t have a screen. I have a mechanical washing machine that I hope never craps out. I still watch TV on a giant projection CRT… I feel like I’m one of the few people my age who resists this onslaught of new technology, and I don’t say that to feel special: I actually wish I could just sit back and enjoy it like everyone else, and I try to an extent. But I hate that I see the collapse behind all this.
When I come to this house, I unplug the Alexa because I find it creepy. On the screen of one of them, it shows you news and suggests you try “making stories” with what I assume is some form of ChatGPT. This feature is aimed at children, which creeps me the fuck out.
Why does everything have to have a chip in it? Why can’t we just live with normal appliances? It’s like the people who have these things don’t see the unsustainability of it all: all these devices having logic boards requires the mining of rare earth metals and massive manufacturing processes. At a certain point, how will it continue? Not to mention that the manufacturers of this technology are increasingly consolidated into a few corporations.
It is washington post, these guys are crooked as fuck. Owned by corporate interests and always pushing the anti WFH, anti millenial kind of nonsense. Superstonk doesnt think much of these guys or wall street journal and all those similar propoganda outlets. They truly are just propoganda at this point
No.
There is only one class of people inaction helps and it's not the workers.
The only things I advocate are booze, books, and gardening.
[Duke University Professor, in 2019, found low-income buyers weren’t to blame for the financial collapse that led to the recession, dispelling the Sub-Prime Mortgage Myth b/c it didn't align with the data. 2008 was a clearing firm settlement crisis like 2021.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/10rwfaw/duke_university_professor_in_2019_found_lowincome/)
The anime perpetuates the subprime mortgage myth.
The full picture is that our leaders have convinced us that to enjoy life on earth we must be their indentured servants for ~~30~~ ~~40~~ 50 years...all while they destroy our only home.
They control the land ownership system, the men who will evict you at gun point, and the fake money supply.
When people have the natural desire to have a place to call home, we are preyed upon. Our leaders are more than happy to enslave us with interest-bearing loans.
Compare this to a system where people work together to ensure everyone has a place to stay. Look at any tribe and you can see they don't charge their children 6-figures for the plot of jungle or steppe to raise their family on.
Isn't it time for us to stand up like those in the Global South?
Those who say "Enough!". " Enough! We are not here on Earth to be slaves to you. We remember who made this earth and it wasn't you. You have more than enough. And we have more of a right to be Mother Earth's caretaker than you greedy destroyer!"
What will a 2.7 degree celcius warming do to India ?So I am from India. More specifically, I am from the desert state of India which is already witnessing desertification. As I understand, the countries above the equator won't be affected as much tropical countries like India as far as land productivity is concerned. The arable percentage of land in India is 52%. The IPCC medium guess is 2.7 degree celcius warming by the end of century. Has someone done the math how much arable land in India will be lost? Obviously wet bulb temperature will wreck havoc, lives will be lost but so far land erosion is the most troublesome part of climate change, which may lead to famines India has never witnessed since 1950.
And by the way, why is no one bothered about to limit warming below 1.5 degrees? Sure, it is lot of effort but why can't we put "lot" of efforts. Do humans absolutely need a catastrophe level extinction warrant to start worrying about climate change? And I don't understand why IPCC likes to leave a "here is your hope lollipop" at the end of every assessment report and playing the doomers are yet another deniers card. I am a doomer, I don't understand how exactly to not be in a desert state where temperature reaches 50 degree celcius every summer already, land fertility is degrading as I write this post and yet I am not supposed to be a doomer!
Dude, if you really can't stand all the pessimism, why the fuck are you hanging out on /r/collapse?
Unsubscribe, go outside and touch grass
Haha whatever buddy, enjoy your bags, I'm going to keep doing me
No.
I don’t want to die a long slow death of hunger, thirst, heat, homelessness, preventable disease, pollution, radiation, debtor’s prison, regular prison, fascist culling, roving gangs and raiders, or anything else that the chaos brought by the slow and certain demise of climate change and resource depletion tripping into fast and frantic apocalypse when things get too uncomfortable for people to continue with business as usual.
What I would prefer to do can’t be spoken of here, and besides, the majority of people would prefer to die in the ways described above or scurry away to their hideouts than take the action that would write into history a noble end to civilization, rather than a spineless sophomoric disappointment.
No, I don’t advocate inaction.
Dude, with all due respect, please allow me to direct your attention to your post history over the past hour or so.
https://i.imgur.com/WMXEusf.jpg
Are you having some sort of mental break? In all seriousness, please seek help if you can.
This
Late marriage for men 30's to 40's slows down fertility long term.
You do you tho. If you wanna hold their pocket, and be their change purse, you do you boo.
Only if you let them. I’m not paying the government anymore if they do this fuckery. We already did this in 2008. That was the once in my life I’m willing to idly abide. They can eat my ass and send me to jail, where they’re gonna be on the hook for my meals, lodging and healthcare too. Fuck the system.
No
FUCK NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! I’M DONE WITH THIS SHIT!! PLEASE STOP BEING PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE!!!! I DON’T DESERVE TO DIE!!! I JUST WANT TO BE HOPEFUL!!!! PLEASE!!!!
FUCK NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! I’M DONE WITH THIS SHIT!! PLEASE STOP BEING PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THE FUTURE!!!! I DON’T DESERVE TO DIE!!! I JUST WANT TO BE HOPEFUL!!!!
China's Runaway Oil Demand​
Summary: China's demand for fossil fuels multiplies, depleting resources and destroying the environment
A while ago, I created a post on future US oil demand, and how the US will continue to gobble up more and more oil, accelerating collapse. But the largest source of growth in oil demand over the past 20 years has been China, according to the EIA, which you can look at [here](https://www.eia.gov/international/data/world). Between 2011-2021, Chinese oil demand grew by an average of about 4.3% per year, which equates to a doubling time of about 16 years. China is the second largest consumer of oil, consuming 15 million barrels a day in 2021. In 2023 the International Energy Agency predicts they'll increase their consumption by 900,000 barrels a day. But there's still tremendous room for growth, since per capita consumption of oil is only about 1/7th of per capita usage in the United States, where the average person consumes 22 barrels of oil a year. In addition, energy usage does not level off as people get richer, which you can see in this [chart](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-use-per-capita-vs-gdp-per-capita?xScale=linear). So, now to the interesting part: What will China's oil demand look like in the future?
I have multiple scenarios based on different assumptions, but I'll start with the High Growth Baseline Scenario. In this scenario, by the 2040s the average Chinese consumes like the average American does today, because:
\- GDP Per Capita rises to levels higher than in America today by 2050
\- The number of cars rises following an S curve from around 300 million today to levelling off at 1.3 billion by 2050, or about 1 car per person, which is close to what it is in the United States
\- As people get richer, they buy more SUVs and less efficient cars. According to the IEA, SUVs account for about a third of cars sold in China, and according to their global fuel economy [initiative](https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/data-tools/global-fuel-economy-initiative-2021-data-explorer), average power and curb weight are rising steadily. Following the trend, the average car only achieves about 19 miles per gallon by 2050, which is actually 2 more than the US in the high growth scenario for oil consumption. This is down from over 31 today. This is because when you plot out power vs fuel economy on today's cars, the trend is that more power=more gas burned. Policies such as high taxes on power and weight could avoid this but this would make the auto industry less profitable and slow the economy as a whole, not to mention be unpopular, so I thinl the only thing they'll do is place high fuel economy standards on cars, which just incentivizes automakers to sell SUVs instead, as they're exempt from mileage standards
\- The number of miles driven per car rises to 14,000 miles per year, or what it is in the United States
\-EVs take off, reaching around 40% market share, but only briefly before critical metal shortages of things like Nickel, Cobalt, and Lithium (demand for energy minerals is expected to rise by several times over according to this one [study](https://www.metabolic.nl/publication/metal-demand-for-renewable-electricity-generation-in-the-netherlands/), creating a crunch). After 2027, EV production crashes due to shortages of metals for batteries, retreating back to about 10% market share. Yes, I know oil depletion is also an imminent issue, the point of this exercise is to see how bad the crunch will be
\- Diesel rises by about 4.5% per year, associated with more trucking
\- Oil usage in the "Other" category made up of petrochemical and industrial usage rises by 5% per year, slower than in recent years
\- Jet Fuel consumption continues rising by 10% per year, as more people can afford flights and more cargo is transported
The results look something like this:
​
By 2050, China will be consuming 122 million barrels a day. For reference, in 2019 the world consumed 100.1 million barrels per day. This would add over a hundred million barrels per day in global demand. The effects of this would be devastating in terms of air pollution and CO2 emissions. But this obviously can't happen, as producers are already struggling to meet today's demand, and most oilfields are in decline. Would different assumptions alleviate the problem? Not really.
To get lower results I scrapped all of the previous assumptions, and stopped looking at individual sectors. I instead grew consumption at 4.5% per year, or close to it's historical average. But that still results in over 50 million barrels per day in demand, or about half of global output.
To get even lower results, there's the "Optimistic" Scenario, where growth is lower, at about 3% per year. I can't imagine it going much lower because China's economy is still rapidly growing, and growth demands more and more energy to sustain it. And again, per capita oil usage is 1/7th that of the United States, and energy usage does not level off as people get richer. Renewables won't help this because they provide electricity (EVs face metal shortages), not fuel for transportation. Here's the "Optimistic" Scenario compared to other groups in the optimistic scenario.
​
So what does this mean? Expect very volatile energy prices as demand for oil outpaces supply, shortages, and even faster depletion of resources. If somehow the world manages to extract more oil using technology, expect extreme pollution as oil demand multiplies, not to mention carbon emissions and the runaway global warming it will produce.
Thanks for reading!
Submission statement: This article relates to collapse because it is trying to explain the phenomenon of climate “doomers” who don’t believe there is a solution to the climate change problem. The article fails to mention the other cascading catastrophes that are either related to or the direct cause of climate change, such as over-population and over-consumption. It gives no historical context to the issues driving the increase in doomers aka people who are collapse-aware. I’m sorry but if you aren’t citing people like Paul Ehrlich or mentioning books like “Overshoot” you have no business writing an article in doomers. It is a very shallow article and another example of how mainstream media will never be able to accurately report about our current situation.
Why climate ‘doomers’ are replacing climate ‘deniers’https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/03/24/climate-doomers-ipcc-un-report/
Submission Report: the article really brings up that "hey becoming a doomer is not healthy for your health", then it walk us through typical adaptation of a newbie doomer to soften the impact of future catastrophe by being a watcher and supporting the cause to care for nature. It's really good article that balance out existing lifestyle with impending collapse. We just need to hope for the best and continue living in by scraping by, earning income, supported by all the fossil fuel energy that keeps us being well fed and entertained.
We human as individual cannot fight the full speed economic growth as we're part of superorganism that sole objective is to consume/harvest all the available sun energy till we're balanced out by the destruction of the biosphere we're living in.
I would like to hear you talk about collapse. Like, in detail
Don't post the letter and be very careful how much info you give out unless you don't care about your wife getting fired. Doing otherwise is career suicide.
No.
Death has always been a certainty, but I've always found a reason to act, and they might too.
What retard put BMO on this list
I watched an Economics Explained video where he was ranking the global economy and he said GDP hasn't gone down in the last few years, so everything is fine, ignoring that all of those GDP increases have gone to the most richest elite, while the lower and middle classes have less buying power than before covid. Economists can get real or fuck off. Even weathermen aren't allowed to be so consistently wrong and keep their jobs.
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Every time I see a post on Reddit talking about having kids
Health insurance has you captive too?!
Friday post; "It goes on and on, Its f*d up, but I'm right; It won't be alright." Your Collapse Playlist?So what songs would you add to a Collapse Playlist?
I'll start:
Lars Frederiksen - God and Guns [https://youtu.be/B7UvBZE\_RS4](https://youtu.be/B7UvBZE_RS4)
>Well mothers tell your daughters
>
>And fathers tell your sons
>
>Well the whole world is a ending
>
>And the sun won't rise no more
>
>There's no hope now, only danger
>
>And peace can't find a home
>
>And now death won't be a stranger
>
>When its kicking down your door
>
>
>
>Corporations seen as people
>
>Bought by million dollars bills
>
>While the fat cats getting fatter
>
>By creating terrorists
>
>You anesthetize your feelings with obesity and pills
>
>If you find out it ain't working
>
>Well you still got god and guns
>
>
>
>It goes on and on
>
>Its f\*cked up but I'm right
>
>It won't be alright
As ecocide/crooked bastards exposed as economic destruction is being engineered. Fascism rising worldwide- weak sick fucking people infiltrated everything everywhere. US Supreme Court, judges, lawmakers, disturbing % of police/ military, kkk variant proudboy crybullies marching out in the open being protected by said police.. all of them being funded by billionaires and ultra/extra national corporations with only loyalty to the almighty dollar and their own legacy- who have made it clear they swing towards fascist against our begging of social safety nets (FUCKING commie SOCIALISTS!!!). Cost of living (disgusting phrase justifying any of this) unstoppably out of control(intentionally), homeless crisis exploding as they criminalize homelessness. Energy crisis/water crisis/ BOE IMMINENT. Fascists can easily be seen using all this to increase their control/outreach/recruitment and political/hard power.
Nobody’s coming to save us. Anyone who has hopes or plans for a future should probably cancel those because you’re gonna, you’re gonna die. I hope with little suffering/quickly and before you have to watch your loved ones do the same. ARM UP and protect those who are on the kill lists before you. Understand they will (if they aren’t/haven’t against you already) demonized and dehumanized everyone left of Goebbels as satan worshipping pedophile groomer parasite marxist trash.
I don’t know what do to about it, I’m just one (asshole) person (SAID FUCKING BILLIONS). I do envision them forcing us to dig our own mass graves at some point(as part of the lesson- which is that we should have stopped them when we had the chance, be we didn’t).
Good luck out there
Obviously, no one here lived through the Great Depression.
Thanks for this. I tend to forget how powerful this movie is. Not to mention it's Qui Gon Jinn taking on this role too.
I understand what you are ruminating over strangelander29. Zombieland celebrated and showed the necessity of blowing off steam. The collapse news and revelations is getting to all of us. I can see the patterns.
Be kind to yourself no matter how much or little doomscrolling you end up doing.
As a great-grandmother, I defy any male to try to create what "identity" he thinks I am, or any born woman, for that matter.
Other than high inflation in daily living expenses and the murder by a man of his wife, committed literally across the street from us in his front yard, nothing else. He later self-destructed at a pond behind his house but our street was on lockdown for hours.
This time we get luckyThis time we get lucky, maybe not next time
Massive asteroid to pass by Earth on weekend - BBC NewsIt will miss us this time, next time maybe we won't be so lucky
No one cares that's why
11:18
The Nations were angry, but your anger has come. The time has come to judge the dead, and to reward your servants the prophets and your holy people, all who respect you, great and small. The time has come to destroy those who destroy the earth.
Found the person that just wants an excuse to kill off brown people.
Look, take your pseudo-intellectual bullshit elsewhere: you don't lay out how different growing methods combined with a vegan diet change the equation you present in any sort of detail, this changes the game - substantially. If you want to be a eugenicist, be my guest, you'll not be invited to many parties, but it's your right to look down your nose at whomever you chose; but don't, for even a second, try to tell me the first fucking thing you would do isn't distribute contraceptives to poor brown folks. That's disingenuous, and you know it.
You can say what you want, liberal, but the method you would use is some bullshit carrot-and-stick method of giving aid for cutting the population by holding medical and financial aid to global south communities.
to everyone else: don't be fooled by this, it is a white supremacist troupe used by ivory tower intellectuals to justify their aggression because of the shrinking of the white population.
It loved MR and Clerks.
Clerks was so different at the time...cool yet slightly dorky.
Any scenarios out of/altering Collapse?As a species, it seems we are almost certainly doomed and set in our ways to continue irreparable ecological destruction which will lead to our likely demise — even with the knowledge of our own self-imposed apocalypse, nothing changes. We march toward Death.
This often makes me wonder: What would it take for us humans, on a global scale, to change our stubborn and destructive habits enough to halt or at least alter collapse?
Examples:
- An awakening of the Collective Unconscious in humans to forever abandon capitalism and fossil fuels whilst pursuing a system of Degrowth emphasizing Indigenous practices to each environment in an effort to restore what has been damaged to Gaia and an end to all hierarchies through peaceful, non-violent measures
Or,
- A Maoist revolution lead by the Youth (and poor) taking revenge on the ruling class without mercy for stealing their futures — though guerrilla tactics, waging war against Capitalists for years until all current governments/economies fall apart, leaving the not-so-young-anymore Youth as victors in which a new (hopeful…?) world can be made with the remaining survivors.
Or,
- Aliens
Or (better yet),
-Contact with enlightened, extra-dimensional beings
Hey! A man can dream, right?
Anyway, Happy Friday y’all. Gotta try and laugh when you can. You got any fun or exciting scenarios in which you think Humans could escape Collapse?
I'm done giving a shit about companies, the economy, and "markets". 6 or 7 companies own everything. that conversation is over and irrelevant besides the fact that they're hellbent on destroying everything for a buck.
if we can make a government functional in that way you describe that would be worth the work.
if we can help each other in this mess that's worth the work.
but fuck "the economy", that monster ate my father.
I vote for chaos.​
Can you imagine how nice it was to be a human on Earth back when there were only about a million of us?
The Tesla Ghouls are starting to wind up, usually with horrible renders of what he looked like. There is no such thing as 'free energy' which is what the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states. All that is going on now, is due to Thermodynamics and the human ape incapability for understanding it.
What Tesla said, in 1915, when there were 200,000 Internal Combustion Engine (I.C.E.) cars in the whole US.
**"If we use fuel to get our power, we are living on our capital and exhausting it rapidly. This method is barbarous and wantonly wasteful, and will have to be stopped in the interest of coming generations." - Nikola Tesla, Manufacturer's Record, September 9, 1915**
In 2023, oil and coal are still the primary and majority fuels, probably destroying the whole global ecosystem before they run out. Species suicide is the future. That is what the people want, that is what the people get.
There is nothing I want more
Consumption strike. Stop buying the shit they’re selling. IF we could collectively pull it off it would bring the system to it’s knees. Because too many won’t make that sacrifice I just try to get by with much much less. A drop in the ocean but I’m tired of giving them any more money than I have to. It’s my best fuck you at the moment and I realize that I don’t need a fraction of the shit I thought I did, goods, services, and otherwise.
Politicians know damn well what decisions would need to be made to avert catastrophe. It's just that those decisions would be unprofitable for their corporate donors, and potentially inconvenient for the hordes of reactionary bootlickers who refuse to make any sacrifice for the greater good, so we're not making them.
Good. If the world ends it’ll save me the trouble of having to kill myself.
This is literally ALWAYS true, no matter how accurate a report is, which IPCC reports are not.
For them to be accurate, they would need to incorporate every variable on this interconnected planet. All our instruments are designed by humans, to extend human senses, which is inherently limiting.
Yes, we are more aware now than ever before because we can share information but we are all still running the same wet-ware that was designed to look for food and people to fuck, not track a planet in exponential decline (partially resulting from studying it).
For our predictions to be accurate, we'd need to understand the role of every species and interspecies interaction in the ecosphere and we're losing species faster than we can catalog them. Since that is the case, we're basically trying to get an idea of how much time there is left before a building collapses on our heads based on what we can see from the ground, inside, and the roof, with only the basic fundamentals of structural engineering and certainly not enough to repair any damage we've cataloged.
It is always worse and will always happen faster because of industry-friendly wording, the fear of causing a panic, and basic ass ignorance of how this system works. It's appalling that we're not paralyzed by the shame of sending the world down a path that was always a murder suicide pact. We won't even take responsibility, despite being the people that decided everyone could have a car and fly around the planet because we had to keep those war factories going because profits.
These are the people that are in charge and that is there ethos. The world is very much on fire, sinking, while pests consume any calories that haven't yet gone extinct... including human beings and the species we subsidize from falling victim to shifts in the climate/seasons. Might as well paint a target on their backs.
Do you think Fervo's Geothermal/CC combo can mitigate warming?To be clear, no, it's not going to stop collapse.
No, it's not going to STOP warming.
Just about every time I see a cute little startup try to suck an insignificant amount of carbon out of the air I roll my eyes but admire them for at least trying. Even though we're set for a absolute shit storm on earth it's still cool to see novel technologies like Fervo's emerge IN THE MEANTIME, though I personally doubt we have much years left to play around with researching, testing, scaling, distribution, red tape etc.
I've seen a few articles on Fervo but here's the first one I saw: https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2023/02/23/geothermal-direct-air
-capture-fervo/
Basically geothermal electricity for CC. Apparently solves the issue of energy-efficient carbon capture. I know this isn't a magic bullet as this straight up doesn't even mention degrowth or overshoot like they don't exist, but what I want your opinions on is if this company has a chance at at least having an *effect*. A positive one.
Me personally, I have my doubts but I'd like to hear your view on them.
EDIT: Other link seems broken or something here's another:
https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/geothermal/fervo-energys-new-project-will-harness-earths-heat-to-capture-co2
StonkS!!!!!!
Yes, we shall.
And for anyone paying any attention, this should prove that it's not our fucking system.
In theory, the GME thing is correct. In theory. If you assume the market rules apply to everyone in every situation.
In practice?
Lol.
You'll see. They're not going to burn their system over some fucking retail investor peons. "Pshh. Serfs."
And when they don't, that should tell everyone everything they need to know, but only like 5000 guys are paying attention. Not enough.
Kelp forests in the Monterey area decline by 80%https://www.sfchronicle.com/climate/article/monterey-kelp-forest-decline-heatwave-17852449.php
The results (of the study) show the long-lasting impact of even brief periods of ocean warming, which are increasing with climate change.
>yes there are places with much better ways of life... But they have a different approach to life and that can be a relief to people who might want to focus on the more important things in life and not be made to feel they have failed or are in danger.
OK, especially as a Leftist myself: point taken. It is human nature that people want to find better situations by changing location. (To an extent, I did that myself; more on that below.) There are places -- Scandinavia, primarily, arguably New Zealand -- that have a more enlightened culture than America as a baseline. And they don't have to deal with 35-45% of their fellow citizens being pig-ignorant Christo-fascists.
So if you're saying it is totally understandable that a young American might want to be in such a place, rather than in the U.S. ... OK I can understand that. (Speaking for myself, I'd love to live in a country that provides Multiple Sclerosis medication at cost of manufacture and delivery, ~$30/month, rather than for literally $3,000-$8,000 per month...)
But: is seeking to *emigrate* the right solution? Is it the best way to solve the problem?
**And -- critically and essentially -- is it *feasible*?**
Let's say you overcome the considerable problem of getting a resident visa for a place like Norway or New Zealand -- you're young and in perfect health and have a highly desirable skill set such that a potential employer with resources wants to bring you in, and you have the wealth to fund such a drawn out, expensive process; or you have a romantic partner from that country who wants to marry you; or, etc. -- my point is, you will find those places have their own problems, which are now your problems, and *you have to navigate those problems without the resources you'd have in your place of origin* (navigating in your native language; a personal network of friends and family; familiarity with social systems and ways of solving problems; etc.).
*And* you will find that moral darkness dwells in human hearts *everywhere*. Yes, statistically these places have less violence, but there have still been mass shootings (both example countries), there is still gay-bashing, and racism, and immigrant-bashing. (Ask Syrians in Sweden how welcome they feel...)
As an American myself, my main lesson from actually living in foreign countries is, they can have pluses you do not have at home, and minuses you do not have at home... they are, simplistically, just *different*.
Maybe it's a matter of choosing which problems you feel are most critical to solve. Life is a series of trade-offs, so maybe you deal with higher cost of living to be in a place where you feel physically more secure.
But my point is, **you do not need to emigrate out of your country to solve some of these problems**. You can solve some of these problems merely by *moving within the United States*. Even that poses challenges, but nothing like the prohibitive obstacles of moving to another country.
A few years ago, my partner and I both had remote jobs at the same time, and realized we could actually leave California (alleluiah!), the state where I grew up and lived 45+ years, where my large extended family lives. We wanted a place that had a good civil culture (politically blue), and would avoid some of the worst of climate change. So we moved to the Minneapolis region (where my wife has relatives and friends). Yeah, we have a police culture problem here, as the murder of George Floyd made evident. But, now my trans teenager lives in a state that just enshrined his right to gender-affirming care into law. And our state is now a mecca in the Midwest for the women of all surrounding states to obtain an abortion if they need one: roughly 20% of patients at Planned Parenthood clinics in Minnesota are now from neighboring states.
So yeah, we moved, and we're better off. Would I be better off in, say, Norway, with my MS? Fuck yeah, I would -- but I can't get into Norway, because of my MS. Countries that are gated communities of civilization make it hard to get in, for a reason: scarce resources.
I guess I'm saying, OK, sure, *move* to improve your situation -- but don't think it requires you to *leave your country*.
It is human nature to want to move to improve your life. We've been doing that since we came down from the trees. But I stick to my point: I don't think a young American needs to *emigrate* to create a better life. Change neighborhood, or town, or state, sure. But anywhere you have some personal resources is a better place to make a stand to confront what's happening than a place where you don't.
What is this "market forces" stuff I for real do not get this market worship.
Interstate highways / space program / colonizing the West / police / postal service / utilities... ALL government. Using private contractors, sure. Telling them to fuck off with that if they don't make it to customer spec (where customer is .gov and they have a staff to check on that)? Sure.
Market forces will make you the easiest shit it can turn a profit on and get away with it, that's the entire definition of capitalism.
So you know. Spaghetti with rat turds in it. Baby formula full of radiator fluid. Entire container ships full of dildos.
This is what "the market" produces. If they could just straight rob you and sustain that, that's what they'd do. Maximum profit for minimum effort, that is their mandate.
All the everything you see around you that is in any way useful was a taxpayer funded government program.
That's also why it's all falling apart now, becuz we dernt believe in no communism y'all.
nuclear is a disaster waiting to happen already with all the global warming we have locked in, and with the 450 reactors we already have running around the world. there aren't enough resources on earth to build the tens of thousands more we'd need to replace fossil fuels, and each one takes decades of work to decommission when you shut it down.
all of the other power sources (and nuclear, too) are dependent on fossil fuels to make the materials (coal for smelting, etc), and to transport the materials in the global supply chain necessary to manufacture them. if you eliminate fossil fuels from the equation, they all become prohibitively expensive to make. and like nuclear, there aren't enough resources on earth to transition to them. for example, it would take more lithium than we mine in 16,000 years to transition all the remaining gas vehicles on earth to electric vehicles - and we'd use up the known reserves of lithium in just one generation.
there was never another option. there's no replacement for fossil fuels, just more opportunities for the same companies to make money by peddling the "cure" to the illness they gave you in the first place. they're not going to tell you the cure is dependent on the same thing making you sick.
No one cares that you can use a search engine.
Given all the information available until now and your own experience, how many livable years do you think we have left? What things are people still doing that make less sense due to climate change? Are there any activities that you, your family or friends started doing in preparation for climate cGiven all the information available until now and your own experience, how many livable years do you think we have left? What things are people still doing that make less sense due to climate change? Are there any activities that you, your family or friends started doing in preparation for climate change?
Informal survey - given all info available until now, how many livable years do you think we have left and what things are people still doing that make no sense any more due to climate change? Are there any activities that you started doing as prep for climate change?
Informal survey - given all info available until now, how many livable years do you think we have left and what things are we still doing that make no sense any more due to climate change?
i just dont want the people i love to suffer
Oh man how embarrasing.
Just my 2 cents, but you might want to pull that comment while you open up a textbook
**Edit:** They blocked me. Snowflakes love to trigger but can't handle the heat themselves, eh? A tale as old as winter itself.
If you come back to read this, u/Powerism, I'll entertain you. Marxism doesn't propose static wealth, that is mercantilism. And mercantilism is not proto-capitalism, it literally is capitalism.
Repeatedly referring to your misunderstanding of a comment to define Marxism incorrectly isn't only asinine, it's insulting to the rest of us. This isn't r/conservative.
There is no discussion to be had when your a priori are so flawed.
Of course you're free to spread your ignorance - but don't cry when you get pushback for weaponizing it in a community that knows better. We're treating you with kids gloves so as to not escalate your tantrum, and you can't even handle that.
You wonder why we would tease you (even as you attack us). It's because it's the simplest, most efficient, and least disruptive way of calling out the voids in your logic.
If we were to meet you with your false definitions and strawmen, then we woud legitimize them even as we deconstructed them. Unfortunately that is the nature of human discourse. People read long, detailed discussions and instead of siding with the stronger analysis, they split the difference and become enlightened centrists.
Luckily some of us are fully aware of this tactic and don't sink to it.
Informal survey - given all info available until now, how many livable years do you think we have left?
Lol, this is a perfect example of what the top level comment your reply is under is complaining about. Everything is political conflict and guesses at someone’s views and motives.
The guy you responded to said nothing right wing or anything even vaguely partisan. You should log off and go outside for a bit.
Meetups? Anyone on the Front Range?Is anyone on the front range? I don't have anyone I can talk with about collapse without getting *that look* and am looking for meeting IRL in groups or one-on-one.
For character requirement:
Front Range is a mountain range of the Southern Rocky Mountains of North America located in the central portion of the U.S. State of Colorado, and southeastern portion of the U.S. State of Wyoming.[1] It is the first mountain range encountered as one goes westbound along the 40th parallel north across the Great Plains of North America.
Vermicompost (vermi-compost) is the product of the decomposition process using various species of worms, usually red wigglers, white worms, and other earthworms, to create a mixture of decomposing vegetable or food waste, bedding materials, and vermicast. This process is called vermicomposting, with the rearing of worms for this purpose is called vermiculture.
Alas....
Have you seen the movie Mall Rats? Its great.
Anyone on the Front Range?I'm trying to find others in my area who accept that we are in collapse.
Any suggestions for finding others to commiserate IRL?
>Here are some of the things that we can do to prevent further climate change:
>Reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
That's a very generic statement, sounds very innocuous, like "smoke less" or "go for a walk".
U.S. Energy Secretary says, "It could take years", to Refill Strategic Oil Reserve - Putting US Energy Security at Risk[https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-energy-secretary-says-it-could-take-years-refill-oil-reserve-2023-03-23/](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-energy-secretary-says-it-could-take-years-refill-oil-reserve-2023-03-23/)
https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/11zdfdh/removed_by_reddit/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This was a video from a dubai prostitute that openly admitted to pedo and more for 50k
was removed by reddit
I imagine the same women and instagram “models” visit the climate conference so anything goes
SuperStonk, not WSB. Say our name right.
Good work. The Atlantic has fallen far, it's not just their work published for this topic.
Google Bard AI: If no action is taken to prevent further climate change, the consequences will be devastating for human civilization.I received access to the beta version of Google's chatbot, Bard. Here is what it answered to my question.
**Prompt**
What will happen to human civilization if no action is taken to prevent further climate change?
**Response**
If no action is taken to prevent further climate change, the consequences will be devastating for human civilization.
* Sea levels will rise, inundating coastal cities and displacing millions of people.
* Extreme weather events, such as hurricanes, floods, and droughts, will become more common and severe.
* Food production will be disrupted, leading to hunger and malnutrition.
* Human health will suffer, as heat waves, air pollution, and other climate-related impacts take a toll.
These impacts will not be evenly distributed. The poorest and most vulnerable people will be hit the hardest.
Climate change is a global problem that requires a global solution. We must all work together to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and adapt to the impacts of climate change that are already happening.
Here are some of the things that we can do to prevent further climate change:
* Reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
* Invest in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind power.
* Improve energy efficiency.
* Replant forests.
* Protect our oceans.
* Educate ourselves and others about climate change.
We must act now to prevent climate change from causing further damage to our planet and our civilization.
To be fair, [the left-leaning areas are also roughly the least affected by this map.](http://gov.oregonlive.com/election/2020/general/gen20.png)
Now of course, that shouldn’t stop them from caring about the rest of the state. But the people who should care the most have largely been tricked into siding against their own interests. (I say mostly because these days I’m confident there are some among them who would willfully burn their own house to the ground to OwN tHe LiBs…)
A collapse map - Week 12Hi fellow collapsniks,
Week 12 of my collapse maps.
As a reminder, I'm making this map every week, it is color coding countries regarding their collapse status. It ranges from green (the country is functioning & far from a collapse) to black (the country has totally collapsed). Details of the color ranges at the bottom of the post. The collapse status is *different from the standards of living*, wealth, happiness, or political regime (even if it is related).
\- That map is *not* a forecast nor its intent is to forecast collapse. It is a glimpse on the immediate, current state of things.
\- This is also not meant to be "the ultimate truth" about collapse for every country. It's only my personal point of view on the collapse situations in the world. In the end, you may agree or disagree with the colors and I'm always happy to discuss and debate, still the point is not to get to an unanimous agreement, but more to trigger the discussion.
\- Please note that having a far right or even **dictatorial government** has nothing to do with collapse *directly*. It may even be the opposite: authoritarian measures, on the short term, are ensuring the stability of a society, thus preventing immediate collapse. To be clear: I'm not advocating for those measures or this type of government. But still, it is a temporary shield against collapse.
**Updates since** [last week](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/11tj80q/a_collapse_map_week_11/)**:**
\- **New Zealand:** turning green again. I had them yellow following the massive floods (and earthquake) 1 month ago, but being a wealthy Western country, they're recovering quickly, and I don't consider the country to be "in a crisis" anymore.
\- **France**: It's staying yellow. The government didn't get impeached, but the [protests](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/24/why-macrons-pension-reforms-have-stoked-so-much-anger-in-france-protests)are being more and more violent. Every night there are unrests in all major cities, with intense fights against police, fires... In the last days some parts of major cities (Toulouse, Paris) got their electricity shutdown. Highways, ports, refineries, industrial areas... Are getting blocked since days. [Fuel is starting to lack in a few thousands gas stations](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/french-power-sector-battered-again-by-ongoing-strikes-2023-03-23/). Honestly it looks now at least as big as the yellow jackets crisis years ago. Today's protests gathered between [1M & 3.5M](https://www.foxnews.com/world/france-protests-draw-1m-force-king-charles-delay-visit-anger-retirement-changes) people (government numbers vs protesters numbers), making them the biggest ones in the last 50 years.
\- **Venezuela** is staying black. I got a comment last week highlighting the situation there, arguing that it's starting to recover. I disagree; there are some hopes and first signs of recovery, that's true, but so far nothing has changed in terms of daily life for the population. The famous new oil reserves are unfortunately a false hope, as those are physically [extremely complex to extract](https://www.stabroeknews.com/2021/08/20/business/venezuelas-oil-reserves-doomed-to-become-the-worlds-largest-stranded-asset/).
\- **Ukraine:** I'm hesitating to put them in yellow again. They're still at war but Russia's assault is less and less harsh, despite the additional mobilization. What do you think?
​
As usual please give me your comments, critics, and please challenge my classifications!
​
**Reminder of the colors meaning:**
\- Green is a functioning country. That does *not* mean the country is a good country to live in. North Korea is green, in the sense that it is functioning and it does not look like it will collapse anytime soon. Still, I know, it's one of the worst dictatorships in the world, with concentration camps, nuclear threats on their neighbors, and population being more or less enslaved, malnourished and brainwashed. But unfortunately the regime there is pretty strong and stable since a while, so it is green under a collapse perspective. Same kind of reasoning applies for oil-blessed Middle East countries: Human, women and LGBT rights are not a thing there, still those countries are (ultra) rich and functioning correctly, as of today. Green examples: Germany, Qatar, Israel, Japan.
\- Yellow means the country is in a serious crisis. There are large-scale troubles ongoing that are altering the normalcy of the daily life for most of the population. Still not a catastrophic state for the population. Nationwide protests in the streets are not a crisis; but if it leads to civil unrest at a significant scale (like overthrowing the parliament - as in Suriname or Brazil), then it could be a crisis.
Fuel or food shortages for a significant part of the population are a crisis, *if* that is a new thing. Having a poor/malnourished population since years or decade is not a crisis per se, because it's the normal (read stable) state of things there. A unexpected and sudden full government change may or may not be a crisis, depending on how it's happening. Canada is yellow, as it suffers multiple "small" crises at the same time: housing, healthcare, inflation, homelessness, climatic...
The crisis in yellow countries is not that major that it may trigger a full collapse in the short term. Examples: US, UK, Russia, Brazil, Suriname.
Adding a note for a country to go from green to yellow: the "crisis" has to be recent. If a country is in an ongoing economic crisis with some fuel shortages, or suffering gang wars, but steadily since 2009, then it's not a crisis, it's the new normalcy for that country. In that case it is green as it is still a functioning country, despite the bad (but stable) conditions there. Most of Latin American countries are in that case. Take Colombia: it is suffering from gang wars since decades. And it hasn't collapsed since then. Those gang wars are a shame, but it's part of their normalcy.
\- Red means the country is close to collapse. It has major structural issues and ongoing crises and could collapse quickly, under a few months or weeks. Examples: Libya, Myanmar, Pakistan.
\- Black means the country has collapsed already and completely. Whether it's economically (Venezuela), societally/structurally (Haiti), or suffering a full scale civil war (Yemen), or all at once... Examples: Somalia, Afghanistan, Syria. So far 9 countries in the world are considered collapsed on this map.
Fo you need to be a goddamn "Malthusian" to see the obvious? I think not.
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“Ah Shit, Here We Go Again!” - A Casual Critique and Commentary on The Atlantic’s “The Malthusians Are Back” [In-Depth]​
*Myth's Note: Today's meme is a little more esoteric than usual. I've summarized everything you'll need to know in point-form, and don't worry: you'll gain a new appreciation for the joke once you're finished with this thread.*
* *"Ah Shit, Here We Go Again!" is a meme-line from the protagonist ("CJ") of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas.*
* *The giant head to the left? That's Thomas Malthus himself.*
* *Behind him to the right is William Robert Catton, Jr., the author of Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change.*
* *The graph in front is essentially* [a simplified version of what ecological overshoot](http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Overshoot_2.png) *looks like in practice.*
* *For some odd reason, both Catton and the graph are overshadowed by Malthus ...*
*-*
Last Wednesday, I had the good fortune to [stumble upon an intriguing thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/11yxqz5/the_malthusians_are_back_the_atlantic/), a wonderful discussion on a recent article published in *The Atlantic*: [**The Malthusians Are Back**](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/03/population-control-movement-climate-malthusian-similarities/673450/) **(**[Archive Link Here](https://archive.is/4iON9)**)**. Now, it isn't often that I'm driven to rapidly prepare a commentary and critique on any given piece of writing, but this one truly took the cake. As I have previously stated on record, "there is so much that is factually wrong or misrepresented in this article that I am considering sending a formal letter to *The Atlantic*."
I say this as a credible writer with threads, commentaries, and publications in hand:
* [**The Overpopulation vs. Over-consumption Debate: Why Not Address Both? \[In-Depth\]**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/v9m1mb/comment/ibx7ra4/?context=3)
* [**"Good Job, Homo Sapiens!" & The Tragedy of Malthus**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/pzav6w/good_job_homo_sapiens_the_tragedy_of_malthus/)
* [**Do you intend to have children? Why or why not? \[In-Depth\]**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/znnblj/do_you_intend_to_have_children_why_or_why_not/)
I'll walk back my words slightly, then: since it's Friday, I suppose that this will be my *casual* letter to *The Atlantic* (complete with meme). And so, today, I thought that we'd explore this piece together. Forgive me for any errors along the way; unlike the authors, I do not have the luxury of writing and researching these matters as my full-time profession, and this was prepared in my spare time over my last two evenings.
A sincere and full disclosure upfront, though: this is an entirely biased assessment, and I will be cherry-picking lines as I go piece by piece. And so, without further ado, let's begin:
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>In recent years, many climate advocates have emphasized human population itself—as opposed to related factors such as consumption and technology—as the driving force behind environmental destruction. This is, at bottom, a very old idea that can be traced back to the 18th-century cleric Thomas Malthus. It is also analytically unsound and morally objectionable. Critics of overpopulation down through the ages have had a nasty habit of treating people less as individuals with value and agency than as sentient locusts.
>
>Malthus argued against aid to poor Britons on the grounds that they consumed too many of the nation’s resources. In making his case, he semi-accurately described a particular kind of poverty that we still refer to as the “[Malthusian trap](https://ourworldindata.org/breaking-the-malthusian-trap)” today. Agricultural productivity in poor societies is not high enough to support the population without significant labor input, so most people work on small subsistence farms to feed themselves and their families. The inescapably linear growth in the food supply could never outstrip the exponential growth in human populations, he argued.
>
>But human societies have proved repeatedly that they can escape the Malthusian trap. Indeed, agricultural productivity has improved to support a British population seven times larger than in Malthus’s time and a global population eight times larger. As a result of these stubborn facts, most Malthusian imitators haven’t come out and said they’re Malthusians. And instead of focusing on famine, they have tended to emphasize humanity’s destruction of nature.
This is almost a caricature that Catton was warning about in his book, *Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change -* something which I analyze carefully in one of my previous threads: [*"Good Job, Homo Sapiens!" & The Tragedy of Malthus*](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/pzav6w/good_job_homo_sapiens_the_tragedy_of_malthus/). I'll quote the relevant part below:
>***The Real Error***
>
>Malthus did indeed err, but not in the way that has been commonly supposed. He rightly discerned “the power of population” to increase exponentially “if unchecked.” He rightly noted that population growth ordinarily is not unchecked. He saw that it was worth inquiring into the means by which the exponential growth tendency is normally checked. He was perceptive in attaching the label “misery” to some of the ramifications of these means. Where he was wrong was in supposing that the means worked fully and immediately. (That this was his error has not been seen by those who reject his views.)
>
>Being himself under the impression that it was not possible for the human load to exceed the earth’s carrying capacity, Malthus enabled those who came after him to go on misconstruing continued impressive growth as evidence against, rather than as evidence for, his basic ideas. Carrying capacity was a concept almost clear to Malthus. He even sensed that the carrying capacities of earth’s regions had been repeatedly enlarged by human cultural progress.20 If he was not yet able to make clear to himself and his readers the distinction between means of enlarging carrying capacity and means of overshooting it, we do ourselves a serious disservice by perpetuating his shortcoming. And we do just such a disservice by continuing to mistake overshoot for progress, supposing drawdown to be no different from takeover. By erring thus we prolong and deepen our predicament.
>
>Despite Malthus’s belief to the contrary, it is possible to exceed an environment’s carrying capacity—temporarily. Many species have done it. A species with as long an interval between generations as is characteristic of ours, and with cultural as well as biological appetites, can be expected to do it. Our largest per capita demands upon the world’s resources only begin to be asserted years after we are born. Resource depletion sufficient to thwart our children’s grown-up aspirations was not far enough advanced when our parents were begetting, gestating, and bearing us to deter them from thus adding to the human load.
>
>By not quite seeing that carrying capacity can be temporarily overshot, Malthus understated life’s perils. He thus enabled both the admirers and the detractors of his admonitory writings to neglect the effects of overshoot—environmental degradation and carrying capacity reduction. In his analyses he assumed linear increase of carrying capacity. While this fell short of sustaining exponential growth of would-be consumers, it was, even so, a far brighter prospect than carrying capacity reduction.
Okay, now that we've pointed out the main errors of Malthus *a*nd the consequent faulty foundation of the authors' arguments *(keeping alive a tradition of misunderstanding that Catton warned about decades ago)*, let's keep going:
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>Oreskes draws attention to the same problem that Ehrlich did in his day: biodiversity loss associated with high-fertility, low-productivity societies caught in the Malthusian trap. Because subsistence farms have low yields, and because the farmers tend to rely on wood and other biomass for energy, they remain a major driver of deforestation, land-use change, and wildlife extirpation.
>
>In Oreskes’s recent Scientific American [op-ed](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eight-billion-people-in-the-world-is-a-crisis-not-an-achievement/), she acknowledges that her ideas have a tarnished legacy. “Population control is a vexing subject,” she writes, “because in the past it has generally been espoused by rich people (mostly men) instructing people in poor countries (mostly women) on how to behave.” Her workaround is to emphasize educational opportunities as a “reasonable” way to “slow growth.” In an email, Oreskes said that she does not consider herself a Malthusian and that she focuses on education “because we know that it can work, and unlike some other approaches it is good for women, and non-coercive.”
In addition to reading Naomi Oreskes' latest work ([**Eight Billion People in the World Is a Crisis, Not an Achievement**](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/eight-billion-people-in-the-world-is-a-crisis-not-an-achievement/) \- *great read, by the way!*), I have personally interviewed a French PhD student (Elias Ganivet) for his perspective (a contemporary understanding of overpopulation) on the matter a while back. In our e-mail correspondence, he provides evidence for the above-listed statements. Here's a quote from the man himself, a link to his published academic article, and my own thread on the matter:
>**Elias Ganivet (**[**Growth in human population and consumption both need to be addressed to reach an ecologically sustainable future**](https://hal.science/hal-02939187)**) as quoted by** [u/myth\_of\_progress](https://www.reddit.com/u/myth_of_progress/) **in** [**The Overpopulation vs. Over-consumption Debate: Why Not Address Both? \[In-Depth\]**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/v9m1mb/comment/ibx7ra4/?context=3)
>
>*"For instance, regarding climate change, I would slightly qualify the impact of population growth vs. consumption (the 10% richest are responsible for more than 50% of GHG emissions). \[However\], this is not true when you look at the environmental problems all together (pollution, resource depletion, biodiversity loss, land-use change, climate change...). Thus, the main point is still the same: population and consumption are two faces of the same coin and we need to do as much as we can in both."*
Right, up next: a paragraph which I've broken up, which includes a rapid fire list of incorrect statements:
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>Rough contemporaries of Malthus, such as the [Marquis de Condorcet](https://www.routledgehistoricalresources.com/economic-thought/journal-articles/malthus-versus-condorcet-revisited), [Karl Marx, and Friedrich Engels](https://www.jstor.org/stable/26161690), argued that improvements in economic productivity would allow humans to grow enough food to meet rising population levels, and they were right.
The article that they've provided for Marx and Engels is one that I've used myself for arguments in the past, and *it's miraculous how they ignored exactly what is written at the bottom first page.*
>[**Marx's and Engels' Concept of Malthus: The Heritage of a Critique, Richard J. Wiltgen**](https://www.jstor.org/stable/26161690)
>
>To Marx and Engels, the primary problem with Malthus's population principle was that it was ahistorical. According to Marx (1967), Malthus had attempted to explain "'overpopulation' by the external laws of Nature, rather than by the historical laws of capitalist production (Vol. 1, p. 529n). In a fragmentary note that Engels had intended to include in his Dialectics of Nature, he presented an analysis of Darwin that paralleled his and Marx's discussion of Malthus and capitalism. Engels (1964) stated that Malthusian overpopulation problems "do in fact occur at certain stages of plant and lower animal life" (p. 311). His discussion of Darwin reflects the complexity of the relationship he envisioned.
Now that Marx is out of the way, lets see what they have to say about Borlaug (*I cannot comment on Vogt, as I'm unfamiliar with his work*):
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>Vogt’s pessimism lost out to the ingenuity of, among others, the Nobel Peace Prize–winning agronomist Norman Borlaug, as the historian [Charles Mann](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/charles-mann-can-planet-earth-feed-10-billion-people/550928/) recounts in his 2018 book, The [*Wizard and the Prophet*](https://www.amazon.com/Wizard-Prophet-Remarkable-Scientists-Tomorrows/dp/0307961699). Borlaug’s innovations in wheat and maize cultivation helped stave off the famines Vogt and other eugenicists had predicted.
**This completely ignores what Norman Borlaug actually professed at his 1970 Nobel Peace Prize Acceptance Speech, and it is actively advocating for a false representation of actual historical fact.** As u/dr_seven states best: *“\[To them,\] Borlaug is an icon, not a human; he didn’t have any views that are at all inconvenient.”* To quote Borlaug’s own words directly, *as an actual person and not a useful strawman* (my emphasis in bold):
>[**The Nobel Peace Prize 1970 - Acceptance Speech**](https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1970/borlaug/acceptance-speech/)**, Norman Borlaug**
>
>It is true that the tide of the battle against hunger has changed for the better during the past three years. **But tides have a way of flowing and then ebbing again. We may be at high tide now, but ebb tide could soon set in if we become complacent and relax our efforts. For we are dealing with two opposing forces, the scientific power of food production and the biologic power of human reproduction.**
>
>Man has made amazing progress recently in his potential mastery of these two contending powers. Science, invention, and technology have given him materials and methods for increasing his food supplies substantially and sometimes spectacularly, as I hope to prove tomorrow in my first address as a newly decorated and dedicated Nobel Laureate.
>
>**Man also has acquired the means to reduce the rate of human reproduction effectively and humanely. He is using his powers for increasing the rate and amount of food production. But he is not yet using adequately his potential for decreasing the rate of human reproduction. The result is that the rate of population increase exceeds the rate of increase in food production in some areas.**
>
>**There can be no permanent progress in the battle against hunger until the agencies that fight for increased food production and those that fight for population control unite in a common effort. Fighting alone, they may win temporary skirmishes, but united they can win a decisive and lasting victory to provide food and other amenities of a progressive civilization for the benefit of all mankind**.
And finally, another comment in an attempt to discredit Ehrlich (*they're really fixated on him, aren't they?*) ...
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>Ehrlich, infamously, lost a bet with the libertarian economist Julian Simon over resource scarcity. (Simon goes completely unmentioned in Ehrlich’s autobiography.)
I'm really glad they raised this point, as this is a frequent criticism to discredit Ehrlich. I'll let *The Economist* ([image provided](https://static.longnow.org/2011/10/economist.ehrlich.simon_.jpg)) do my work here to speak in his defense:
>[**The Revenge of Malthus: A Famous Bet Recalculated, The Economist**](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2011/08/06/the-revenge-of-malthus)
>
>Mr Simon duly won the bet. The economic boom of the 1980s and 1990s also contradicted Mr Ehrlich's wilder claims—that a billion people would starve to death and that, by 1985, America would be trapped in an “age of scarcity”.
>
>But what if Mr Ehrlich had taken up Mr Simon's 1990 offer to go “double or quits” for any future date? All five have risen in price since the rematch was proposed. Furthermore, Jeremy Grantham of GMO, a fund-management group, points out that Mr Ehrlich would have won the original bet were it recalculated today (he is still alive; Mr Simon died in 1998). An equally weighted portfolio of the five commodities is now higher in real terms than the average of their prices back in 1980 ([see chart](https://static.longnow.org/2011/10/economist.ehrlich.simon_.jpg)).
>
>The Cornucopians might argue that today's metals prices are due to the buoyancy of demand in the developing world rather than any cataclysmic shortages in supply. But the Malthusians might retort that man's famed ingenuity has not stopped prices from rising in real terms over an extended period. Place your bets.
Moving on ...
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>Thanks to innovation and technological decoupling, an average American today is more than twice as wealthy as an average American was the year The Population Bomb was published, yet generates 30 percent fewer carbon emissions and uses 50 percent less land for their diet.
First, we need to look at this from the perspective of global per capita consumption-based CO₂ emissions (*national emissions that have been adjusted for trade*), rather than production-based emissions. Outsourcing manufacturing to other nations, for example, is an extremely innovative way of reducing energy and material throughput in a national economy. [Looks like the authors' claims might actually hold up to some degree here](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-capita), but they also ignore the legacy of historical emissions by the developed West.
As for the "less land" claim, the data is provided here for interest ([agricultural land per capita](https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/agricultural-area-per-capita)). However, one needs to ask the question - *how did we improve crop yield per capita across the world over the past few decades*?
The answer provided in this article sort of ignores the context of reality we live in - it's a miracle not only brought to us through globalization, but much more importantly, through the fossil-fuel bonanza that truly powered almost every aspect of the Green Revolution. It is not a trend we can continue to rely on well into the future. To quote the United Nations' Food and Agriculture Organization:
>[**"Energy-Smart" Food for People and Climate - Issue Paper (UN FAO) \[PDF page 14, paper page 3\]**](https://www.fao.org/3/i2454e/i2454e00.pdf)
>
>The ‘green revolution’ of the 1960s and 1970s solved the food shortage problem at the time. This revolution was accomplished not only through improved plant breeding, but also by tripling the application of inorganic fertilizers, expanding the land area under irrigation and increasing energy inputs to provide additional services along the food chain. Today, the annual incremental yield increases of major cereal crops are declining and fossil fuels are becoming relatively more scarce and costly. Historical trends indicate an evident link between food prices and energy prices (Fig. 1). Further intensification of crop and animal production will be required to feed the world’s population, which is projected to expand to over 9 billion people by 2050. The report, “How to Feed the World by 2050” (FAO, 2009a) indicates that a 70 percent increase in food production compared to 2005-2007 production levels will be needed to meet the increased demand. This equates roughly to the additional production of around 1 000 Mt of cereals and around 200 Mt of meat and fish per year by 2050. These production gains are largely expected to come from increases in productivity of crops, livestock and fisheries. However, unlike the 1960’s and 1970’s green revolution, our ability to reach these targets may be limited in the future by a lack of inexpensive fossil fuels.
To paraphrase Catton: industrial humanity is a type of "detritivore" dependent upon the ghost acreage that non-renewable fossil fuels provide us. Ignoring matters of resource depletion and escalating EROI, we'll also see how long cropland per capita keeps up as climate change continues, and begins to fundamentally affect the stable climatic conditions required for human agricultural activities. For interest, here's [Mark Lynas's take on what agriculture will look like in a 4 degree Celsius world](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/11y83q2/comment/jd7xm1j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3).
Moving on ...
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>Like Oreskes, the scientists at TOP and Population Connection insist that their proposed solutions to the population “problem” are non-coercive. They just want to nudge people in the direction of fewer people. Another of TOP’s [priorities](http://churchandstate.org.uk/2019/03/solutions-to-overpopulation-and-what-you-can-do/) is to “reduce immigration numbers” to developed countries with low fertility rates. Additional ideas include proposals to lower government support for third and fourth children and for medical fertility treatments.
>
>But Ehrlich said the same thing. “I’m against government interference in our lives,” he told an interviewer in 1970. How that sentiment squared with Ehrlich’s demands in The Population Bomb for “compulsory birth regulation” and “sterilizing all Indian males with three or more children” remains unclear. And it didn’t stop powerful institutions from taking his warnings about overpopulation literally as well as seriously. As Betsy Hartmann [recounted](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/book-incited-worldwide-fear-overpopulation-180967499/) in her 1987 exposé, [Reproductive Rights and Wrongs](https://bookshop.org/p/books/reproductive-rights-and-wrongs-the-global-politics-of-population-control-betsy-hartmann/10917143?gclid=CjwKCAjw_MqgBhAGEiwAnYOAemFMO_EIxKVfTDg667RBlQ8xlPUk8AQLum3Vfvt7eWmM_HdkNdbz5RoC32cQAvD_BwE), the Population Council, the International Planned Parenthood Federation, and other organizations funded fertility-reduction programs that, in tandem with sometimes coercive government policies, led to millions of sterilizations in China, India, Mexico, Bolivia, Peru, Indonesia, Bangladesh, and elsewhere. China’s one-child policy can be [directly traced](https://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/chinas-one-child-policy-was-inspired-by-western-greens/) to Limits to Growth, the Club of Rome’s famous Malthusian screed warning of resource shortages and overpopulation.
In reference to the first paragraph, I think we can all fundamentally agree that, [to quote myself from an earlier thread of mine](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/v9m1mb/comment/ibx7ra4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3), "*we must find politically and socially acceptable ways to implement various non-coercive population policies to lower humanity’s impact on Earth’s biosphere and its natural wealth for the benefit of future generations and other species.*"
The second paragraph, however, is what we really need to engage with - it's a great point, and it needs to be addressed with principled sincerity and rigour. I have not read Hartmann, so I cannot pass judgment on that front; I can, however, pass judgment on the authors, as this quote appears to be lifted straight from yet another piece by Charles Mann (*rather than working with Hartmann's material itself*).
I will **not contest** their claims that coercive government policies led to population-control sterilization programs around the world in the 1970s and 1980s: clearly such a practice is abhorrent and must be condemned. However, I will note that this requires a much greater analysis than what the authors have prepared here today. As someone who believes in working with objective sources, I wanted to discuss some matters raised in a joint UN-WHO document titled [**Eliminating forced, coercive and otherwise involuntary sterilization: An inter-agency statement**](https://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/media_asset/201405_sterilization_en.pdf). As with all documents produced by the United Nations, this was a stellar read, and I fully recommend it to everyone. That said, there's one specific argument I want to make today - that the authors are unfairly foisting the blame solely onto *The Club of Rome*. To quote:
>[**Eliminating forced, coercive and otherwise involuntary sterilization: An inter-agency statement**](https://www.unaids.org/sites/default/files/media_asset/201405_sterilization_en.pdf)**, UN-WHO Joint Document**
>
>During the period from the 1960s to the 1990s, coercive sterilization has been used in some countries (including in Asia, Europe and Latin America) as an instrument of population control, without regard for the rights of individuals (57–59). A range of incentives or coercive pressures have been employed to secure agreement to sterilization, including offers of food, money, land and housing, or threats, fines or punishments, together with misleading information. Under some government programmes, rewards have been provided for health workers who met sterilization targets, while those who missed the targets were at risk of losing their jobs (7, 60, 61). People living in poverty, indigenous peoples and ethnic minorities have been particularly targeted by such programmes (7, 44, 61). In many countries, information is not made available in accessible formats and local languages, and informed consent is not obtained before these procedures are carried out (62). Moreover, these procedures may be carried out in unsafe and unhygienic conditions, without follow-up care(7, 60–62).
>
>\[...\]
>
>Special care must be taken to ensure that every person makes a voluntary and informed choice regarding the use of any contraceptive method (3). This is particularly important for sterilization, since it is a surgical procedure that is intended to be permanent.
>
>\[...\]
>
>Accountability is central to preventing human rights violations and to ensuring that laws,policies and programmes are properly developed and implemented. Accountability mechanisms also assist in identifying individual and systematic human rights violations, as they provide victims with an avenue to air their grievances and seek redress.
>
>\[...\]
>
>Accountability, however, rests with states, to prevent coerced sterilization, to explicitly prohibit such practices, to respond to the consequences of these practices, to hold the perpetrators responsible, and to provide redress and compensation in cases of abuse.
I'll state my point directly: abuses of state power are the responsibility of the government conducting said activities (*not the Club of Rome and their tireless work*), and should be openly condemned wherever possible. However, if the authors intend to continue their condemnation of The Club of Rome, then they must - by example and logical necessity - also condemn Norman Borlaug himself for the same *Malthusian* sins contained within his 1970 Nobel Peace Prize Acceptable Speech quoted at length earlier.
I would hope that the authors and I are firmly in agreement that this is not their intent; and so, commend both Borlaug and the Club of Rome for their innovative research to address the human predicament and alleviate suffering across the world. Furthermore, I would gladly welcome the provision of more *primary sources* to confirm their statements or anything else they produce and publish in the future again.
Right, let's finish up with the concluding statements by the authors (my emphasis in bold for one last discussion point).
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>And these concerns are being raised at a peculiar moment in human history. The total population of human beings on Earth is expected to [peak and decline](https://ourworldindata.org/future-population-growth) [later this century](https://previous.iiasa.ac.at/web/home/research/researchPrograms/WorldPopulation/Reaging/The-growing-divergence-in-population-trends-and-concerns.pdf), not because of war, famine, or disease, but because of secularly declining fertility. The challenge that nations including Germany, South Korea, Japan, and even India and China are dealing with today is [underpopulation](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/underpopulation-problem/585568/), not overpopulation. Migrants, particularly those who are young and skilled, will be crucial to generating economic growth in these countries. This makes the neo-Malthusian dismissal of technology, infrastructure, and growth particularly troubling. **Supporting an aging population will require an economic surplus that has traditionally been supplied by a favorable ratio of younger workers in the labor force to retirees. As that ratio reverses, it is not clear how infrastructure maintenance and social-services financing will fare.**
>
>Given that the Malthusian dream—a peak in global population—is already in sight, one might think that single-minded efforts to further suppress population growth would wane. But the old population-control movement is still alive and well today.
Despite all of my contention with what the authors have provided here today, they've made a remarkably great point that I'd like to explore. In a future burdened by resource depletion and climate change in an increasingly inhospitable biosphere, *how do we ensure that we are able to support an aging population in a future defined by the limits to growth?* We're already seeing what's happening in France, but that pales in comparison on what is yet to come.
Future (*and current*) generations will never enjoy the same quality of life as we do today, right now, so *how on Earth* can we possibly expect younger generations to calmly accept the burdens bestowed upon them by the older generations before them? When the reality of societal collapse truly sets in, and the costs of survival begin to escalate in a world of increasingly scarce resources, *how can we honestly expect future generations to pay down the pensions (and debts) of those who left a ruined world behind for them to inherit?*
For those of us who genuinely want to look forward to retirement, then we must genuinely embrace and consider this question and its ramifications. This inter-generational conflict that I've described is one of the greatest ticking time bombs in the developed world, especially if we do nothing to change the course of global industrial civilization for the benefit of all.
As an encore, one last quote:
>**The Malthusians Are Back - Alex Trembath and Vijaya Ramachandran**
>
>As *The Atlantic*’s Jerusalem Demsas [put it](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/population-growth-housing-climate-change/629952/), “Enough with the innuendo: If overpopulation is the hill you want to die on, then you’ve got to defend the implications.”
Enough with the misrepresentations: if criticizing perspectives on overpopulation is the hill you want to die on, then you've got to defend your arguments far more soundly.
And finally, to the authors: I don't want to [**breakthrough**](https://thebreakthrough.org/about) any more bullshit.
>[**The Breakthrough Institute's Inconvenient History with Al Gore (2014), Paul D. Thacker (Harvard University - Edmond & Lily Safra Centre for Ethics)**](https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/breakthrough-institutes-inconvenient-history-al-gore)
>
>While sometimes functioning as shadow universities, think tanks have been exposed as [quasi lobbying organizations](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112381/salary-inflation-beltway-think-tanks), with little [funding transparency](http://www.transparify.org/blog/2014/2/25/why-american-think-tanks-are-becoming-more-transparent). Recent research has also pointed out that think tanks suffer from [a lack of intellectual rigor](http://www.transparify.org/blog/2014/2/25/why-american-think-tanks-are-becoming-more-transparent). A case in point is the Breakthrough Institute run by Ted Nordhaus and Michael Shellenberger, which describes itself as a "progressive think tank."
>
>\[...\]
\-
*If you enjoy today’s meme and article, and if you also share my insatiable curiosity for the various interdisciplinary aspects of “collapse”, please consider taking a look at some of other written and graphic works (like this piece) at* [*my Substack Page –*](https://mythofprogress.substack.com/)[ ](https://mythofprogress.substack.com/)[***Myth of Progress***](https://mythofprogress.substack.com/)*. That said, as a proud member of this community, I will always endeavour to publish my work to* [*r/collapse*](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/) *first.*
100% Inflation in Argentina?Does anyone on this sub live in Argentina? Watched this YouTube video on the Vice channel, and my god. Heartbreaking. That could easily be America in a year or 2. Hell, it will probably be global!
https://youtu.be/Q3FGZTN9rwk
Location: Vermont, USA
Not just weekly observation. But this week spring appears to have come early, mirroring the weather earlier this winter when we were wondering if winter would come at all. I'd say we've had about a month of a "normal" winter here so far this season. It's been unseasonably warm, just as last summer and fall were. It rained on Halloween, didn't get below freezing, which is unusual. And it stayed warm and rainy until late mid February except for a snow storm here and there. It felt like winter finally came late February after the polar vortex, we finally had sub freezing temperatures during the day after that and finally got a bunch of snowstorms (ski resorts here have really been struggling, and with the high temps can't even make artifical snow. Some had to shut down). Decently cold temps and snow continued since then to now (late march) and it is now rainy and warm again and will be all week. Which is bit early for that. We've always had "thaws" but they don't last for weeks or months.
The rivers I haven't seen frozen over once this year because of the warm temperatures. Usually, you know, they freeze at the start of winter and stay that way until spring. They froze over during the 2 day polar vortex back in Feb, but melted right away afterwards.
Because we aren't staying consistently at or below freezing, things keep freezing and thawing, and it's really messing up the roads and asphalt this year. The roads are going to be bad this spring. Another overlooked aspect of climate change, more money spent on infrastructure. During the polar vortex a water main broke behind my apartment too, rapid freezing and thawing will do that.
Back in December we had a once in a generation "wind storm," another very unusual event. 100+ mph gusts all day, knocked down tons of trees, at one point the whole state was without power.
A few weeks ago I went to my local gas station to get some drinks one night, and some old dude is in there ranting at the cashier about "the gays" and I presume transpeople. It was really, really weird. He yells "what is a man anymore? I'm a 'cis-man' now?" or something like that, very visibly agitated. And I'm thinking to myself, we just went through two major severe weather events, unusual events where people died, and you're actually freaking out about "the gays"? I feel blackpilled, at the fact that we're facing an existential crisis, yet all the old people can do is complain about gay people and abortion. Not to mention all the other more pressing issues like homelessness and suicide and drug "overdoses" (many overdoses are really suicides) among young people especially, all which have been increasing year over year here.
I just went to Boston for surgery a month ago. Anyone here from Boston? It was so nice. The people were so nice compared to here. The vibe is very different. I'm not sure how to describe it. I feel like out here in rural areas people are more bitter and mean compared to the city. And I wonder why that is? Maybe because rural America is declining and collapsing but the cities are doing well? I did notice in Boston there was a lot of very obvious gentrification going on, like brand new expensive high rise apartments close to poor neighborhoods. But a lot of new buildings in general compared to the last time I was there 20 years ago. I'd love to live there but could never afford it unless I had family to split the rent with me.
Joe Biden and his neoliberal pack of wolves are part of the problem.
The memes write themselves... enjoy your copium.
No!!!!! Stonks
I mean, couldn't a bunch of divers with a few suction tubes and boats with containers accomplish the task? That shouldn't be too expensive and they might even find volunteers with boats and volunteer divers who just want to make the ocean a better place to do it. The only thing really needed would be portable pumps to suck the pollutant away and containers.
How deep is the coast near the island anyway? I have diving equipment but unfortunatly I am half the planet away from that place.
I believe the doomish vibe on the sub (understatement) is a necessary state for the grief process to take place in people, and doesn't make the community unpleasant in itself. These are necessary conversations and yes, they tend to be glum. You don't go into a cancer ward singing and shouting "Hoorayyyyy this is GREAT!" (though maybe you should...but that's a post-doom subject and I digress).
I think what's biased about this sub is that once [if] the grief process is done, people tend to move on to the real world and live in the present moment, leaving doomscrolling behind, which results in a disproportionate amount of fatalistic and depressed users at any given time on the sub. Think of a rehab clinic: once people are cured, they don't hang around at the clinic, they fuck off and go live their new lives. This sub is a rehab clinic for hopium addicts. Not everyone gets better, but for the percentage that do, it's worth the whole shebang.
This process of "once you're better you go do your thing" is one I've observed among my IRL friends, and also some famous collapseniks who suddenly stop prevention efforts and media appearances and just go live a quiet life with their loved ones (eg Pablo Servigne in France)
_Obligatory disclaimer: it takes a certain amount of socio-economic luck, AKA privilege, to be able to transition to a happy healthy post-doom life. Nonetheless, I don't think it invalidates my observations._
Obviously, it's hard to prove the above observations because this is a community of internet strangers. However, I've noticed familiar usernames here disappear over time, being replaced by new 'regulars'. In my own experience, this 'hopium rehab' journey has been incredibly enriching, even though the sub's vibe has remained reliably glum over the three years I've been here.
Now in response to your comment about leaving the sub behind:
Some r/collapse users appear to choose to stay here for years to help others walk into, through, and out of the abyss. There are many roles to play, and all are important. For example, in my case, about three years ago u/dumnezero and u/Capn_Underpants walked [or rather yanked? 😅] me out of hopium and into doom, then later u/mbdowd helped me walk out of it. These were super necessary parts of the grief process. These people are still around, helping others. And today, OP u/Amazon8442 reminded me about the power of local, small-scale 'obviously good' actions I can take to find more meaning in my day-to-day life.
If you're able to see the bright side, and enjoy hanging around on r/collapse, it makes sense to keep visiting here, not necessarily for yourself but to transmit your insights to others. Doing this will help your own mental health too. It's like Ram Dass says: "We're all just walking each other home."
I miss the old days of the charity stores from before EBay became a thing. It was so quiet in there and there really were treasures to be found. And things were all priced below $1. They felt truly community-run rather than the shiny corporate money-spinning things they’ve become.
Could be a suicide mission. Probably better not do it
Overpopulation and the coming food production collapseIn 1930 the world could barely feed 2 Billion people. After WW2 through the green revolution and haber bosch we managed to artificially increase our food production so that we can barely feed 8 Billion.
Yet while some countries produce a surplus - most countries have more people than they can supply. Russian/Ukrainian grain deliveries for example are vital for countries like Egypt and Bangladesh - because they are overpopulated. Globally some 350 Million people dont have enough food.
Now that yields are slowly decreasing due to climate change - peak farmland - water shortages - less avaliable fossil fuel -famine is approaching.
No going vegan - No eating insects - and no better transportation will change this.
Sure some food is wasted - but mostly because of long transportation lines.
The fact is though: There are too many people to feed - agriculture constantly running at 150% is unsustainable.
Yes!
GeoStormMuch of the United States and Canada is currently Witnessing the northern lights.. Currently, a severe strong geomagnetic storm is taking place hitting the united states. The NOAA Space Weather has issued a G4 out of a G5 which is the highest level and everyone north of the green line could see the auroras on the horizon.. There wasnt any mainstream reporting on the MASSIVE CME this sunspot group let off last week on the opposite aide of the sun. Its wild all this activity we are seeing isn’t even from a flare..
[https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/news/g4-severe-geomagnetic-storm-alert-24-march-utc-day](https://www.swpc.noaa.gov/news/g4-severe-geomagnetic-storm-alert-24-march-utc-day)
It makes you wonder what we all could accomplish without these political figures spouting off BS.
Not really. But I look at it the same way Thanos does: *It is inevitable.*
Or while we're continuing pop culture references, for my fellow innalowda Expanse fans: The Churn.
>Kenzo: It must be nice, having everything figured out like that.
>Amos: Ain’t nothing to do with me: we’re just caught in the Churn, that’s all.
>Kenzo: I have no idea what you just said.
>Amos: This boss I used to work for in Baltimore, he called it the Churn. When the rules of the game change.
>Kenzo: What game?
>Amos: The only game. Survival. When the jungle tears itself down and builds itself into something new. Guys like you and me, we end up dead. Doesn’t really mean anything. Or, if we happen to live through it, well that doesn’t mean anything either.
I'm not a believer in apocalyptic events. Things like a life ending meteor, spontaneous supervolcano eruption, 10,000 nuclear missile detonatons around the world, other crazy bordering on sci fi events that wipe all life immediately are rare enough that I won't see them in my lifetime. Or fuck it it'll be bad enough that I won't want to be around for it anyway, as morbid as it sounds.
But catastrophic events, downfalls of society big enough to hurt, well that's life. Rome fell, the library of alexandria burned, a pandemic took millions of people from us. Who knows what the future holds for us, but I presume societal ''collapse'' of tough times ahead from more commonly occurring disasters both nature or human made. More floods, more derailments, more abuse.
It is why I follow groups like preppers and here so that I can remain comfortable through the tough times. It's already saved my ass a few times. When the city water went out for boil notice I already had a small stash of potable water. My training and supplies helped me feel comfortable venturing out of the house to gather more supplies during the 72 hour blackout in lethal temperatures in Houston Texas February 2021. When a hurricane ravaged my city in 2017 we were okay because I gathered beforehand items that we still use today. Supplies aren't to be stashed for a nuclear Armageddon that won't come, they are for you to build piece by piece to protect you and those you love through these tough times ahead.
The jungle is tearing itself down right now into something new. Whether I survive or not is ultimately up to fate's hands, but I was given these assets for a reason and will use them to my fullest advantage to make it through. I hope you do as well.
What do you think we'll see by the 2030s?How far do you think society will fall by then?
Most of them don't care or only care about their own survival. The same people with the resources to put the brakes on our civilizational suicide think we're doomed.
It's fuckin tragic
Maybe climate change can be stopped by a highly lethal virus with a long asymptomatic phase. Civilization will collapse, but some humans will survive.
8 billion people is "overpopulation" the way that American education is "underfunded"8 billion people is "overpopulation" in the way that American schools are "underfunded".
The two statements ignore the facts that we're currently sustaining our population in the ways that are convenient for profit, but not for actually meeting the physical needs of homo sapiens, the same way that American schools and healthcare for that matter, are a matrix of middlemen and profit extraction rackets instead of actually educating and training people to do useful things for society.
If you over-exploit the resources that are convenient to extract profit from (fossil fuels, personal car ownership, red meat, opioids and sugar/corn syrup) and completely ignore the potential in resources/industries that would ensure long term super-abundance for 12 billion people plus (solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, alternative protein like vermiculture, as well as converting deserts to pasture, scrubland and grasslands (like can you imagine how much more farm land we would have if we had used all the resources going to ornamental lawns but for converting deserts/shrubland to something useful??!!)), shocker, you end up with a trash system that can't support many people.
Chesapeake Virginia
We had three nights of frozen temperatures in a row earlier this week. Today it was high 70s. It felt hot. Unnaturally hot. Looking at temperatures in the 80s as a high the next couple of days. No wonder people are crazy. Temperatures are wild and swinging.
I live in Pennsylvania.
The Trump supporter down the street continues to flick me off every time I drive by him, this has been happening since October of 2020. It amazes me that this person is still angry over an election from nearly 3 years ago. Ever since this started happening I haven't really enjoyed living on this street.
Yes.
The Trump supporter down the street continues to flick me off every time I drive by him, this has been happening since October of 2020. It amazes me that this person is still angry over an election from nearly 3 years ago. Ever since this started happening I haven't really enjoyed living on this street.
I am sorry to hear of your mom's illness. It Is entirely reasonable to expect her to pull thru just fine. Finding stuff early is a blessing these days.
I know it does not seem like it right this moment. Remembering to breathe is the smartest thing you can do. Keep doing it and you will pull thru this one too.
Keep us posted. There will be more, and harder, things to confront in the next years, with fewer resources. She still has access to medical care, this is really really good news. And it gives her a really good chance.
UN conference hears litany of water disasters linked to climate crisis
“ mass scale geo engineering‘
This is suicide and is just more 20th century delusional thinking that is rooted in the very weird modern human belief that it is in charge here. The last remaining iteration of human isn’t going to micromanage all of Earth’s operating systems and shoot down every incoming chunk of comet debris forever and noting that increased heat and disruptive weather are just two elements of this fast moving multi-faceted cataclysm.
And so ultimately we will starve more than half the planet.
I'm absolutely an opponent of climate eugenics, it's horrific, but acknowledging that we're far beyond planetary carrying capacity is just stating facts at this point. The question isn't can we adapt, it's how. Because we either adapt or die.
That is such a bullshit response. You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. “Compromise with fascists”? Last I checked fascists believed their way was the only way. Kind of like saying that the only way is being progressive left.
Exactly
I’m sorry to hear that. Hopefully your mom will be fine. I lost my mom to terminal cancer a year and a half ago. It definitely sucked. I miss her every day. It was my own personal collapse.
Cool story, bro. Go be miserable in your own life. I'll do me. You literally know nothing about me and the lengths I go to try and make the world be a better place than I left it. So eat a dick.
Are you on Mastodon yet?
Less "I want the world to collapse" and more "The world is going to collapse so just rip the goddamn band-aid off already"
Water scarcity leading to failed harvests, famine, political instability and the collapse of international cooperation. That is the weakest link for global collapse and I’m with the collapse aware that fear the collapse in a decade or two, not post 2050.
If 70 is the age I’m expected to retire then I don’t wanna be alive.
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An unexpected source of methane? Your local sewage plant.Methane emissions from sewage treatment plants in a new study are shown to be higher than previously reported by the EPA, now at around 11.6 million metric tons of carbon dioxide. This is collapse related as the more we need sewage treatment the more methane will be released adding additional greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.
https://grist.org/cities/an-unexpected-source-of-methane-your-local-sewage-plant/
Too many people is still one of the problems. I don't speak for culling the population but it would be best if we stopped having so many children.
How do I feel about guns in Collapse?**How do I feel about guns in Collapse?**
After gerbdergerb commented on my post about the importance of protecting my preps and myself, I began questioning my guns' role in the coming Collapse. While I own various guns, I have not used one since the 1980s. However, I recognize the need for an armed community in a worst-case scenario, and I am prepping for myself and my tribe (family, friends, and neighbors).
I have paid close attention to videos on firearm safety and how to use them. The guns are cleaned and stored properly and safely. I hope someday to go to a firing range and try them out. I have never shot an automatic of any sort.
I think tough times are coming soon, maybe a decade before it all collapses around us. It is my intention to live on the coast of Washington above the tsunami line and away from big cities. I read posts debating whether it's safer to be in the big city where emergency services will be provided, or in the countryside. I think governments are and will remain so politically divided that they will be useless. We will be on our own which is why we prep. So I plan to have a like minded community around me, in an area where I can survive without the grid (weather not so hot I have to have AC to survive, and, not so cold where I have to have a powerful heat source). The community part is important. Any reliable physical safety will be with an armed community. And I have arms to contribute to that community. Whether I am a shooter or not will be determined by fate.
I'm in my 70's and I expect to miss the worst of what's coming at us. I am not prepping to live in a world like The Last of Us tv show. If I end up in that kind of situation, it makes me think of the expression that roughly says that you don't know what you are made of until you are at war. Do I pee in my pants, toss the grenade back at the enemy, or fall on the grenade for my friends? I hope never to find out.
>The NSA knows if you’re a threat even before you do.
"The Bell" conspiracy theory. The idea is that the reason why the NSA/CIA/others are so focused on collecting tons of data (even though the vast majority is useless) is to create a predicative algorithm that will be used to keep the people inline. Edit: Useless data like what types of cakes your mom likes or what Youtube videos you watch. The government collects as much as it can, so much so that it's impossible for a human operative to do it.
Example: Your data from every social media you use (like google, Tiktock, etc) will be used to create a profile of what you believe and what actions you will likely take.
So, if you like rock music and lean left, and the algorithm notices that you have gotten advertisements for a left leaning rock band in your area, than it will predict whether you will go or not with a fairly high success rate. It will also take into consideration things like your bank balance, how long you saw the advertisement, and your work schedule.
Essentially, the government would have near complete and total control of the population, with minimal effort needed they would be able to tell who will resist and who won't.
Everyone should get a chance to peak off more than just 'Always Sunny' references.
Might I suggest a candy flip with a dash of nitrous. You will peak and it will peek right back at you.
I want capitalism to stop existing.
Ok
Yes.
Yes I agree it depends on what collapse looks like but we are chatting in a thread in which collapse looks like the death of 7/8 of the human population. Since that won't happen overnight, it will be a slow then fast authoritarian escalation until then followed by increased violence.
I agree it's not worth worrying about, especially since in a situation like that, you and I are unlikely to be among the billion that survive rather than the seven billion that die, so whatever.
What do you think about Last Light (TV Series)?The message I received after watching the first few episodes is that anyone who militantly resists the oil industry (or uses direct action inspired by environmental, anti-patriarchal, anti-corproate ideologies) is (1) an enemy of the state, (2) an eco-terrorist and (3) an overall piece of shit that should be terminated.
I am hoping for a twist in messaging as the show progresses, especially from Matthew Fox, but not holding my breath. So far, it's subliminal coercion (ie deep state Hollywood utility) for radicals to stay in their lane, keep quiet, and let democracy leaders save civilization from (1) climate change and (2) any clearly deranged insurgent whose had enough of liberal market democracy's bullshit.
What do you think?
did you forget to take your meds today?
Do you think Industrial Revolution was part of the Great Filter
I believe the children are my future
They can change my oil and cut my hair
They can find the tapeworm that I have inside
Give them a sense of pride
So I can crush it
Let the children's wailing
Remind me of my ROI
I decided long ago
Never to live in any neighbor's shadow
If I fail if I succeed
At least I made those little shits bleed
No matter what they take from me
They can't take away my currency!
Because the greatest
Love of all is staring back at me
I found the greatest
Love of all in my bathroom mirror
We can't recycle ours so we just burn them.
No
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Yea, it was definitely so interesting for me bc all my life I wondered. Is it real? My mom forced me to go to church as a kid until as a teen I said sorta loudly while in church, “ I don’t believe in any of this stuff anyways! “ or something close to it.the rest of the first NDE, the septic shock, where I was floating in the darkness… to add to that… it wasn’t darkness like if you turned off the light in a room. It was darkness like infinite darkness. More like the universe of darkness. Vast. And the peace which was there was living, flowing … tangible, like water… it flowed in me and thru me. It was so amazing. Then my husband saw there was no respiration ( a 35 yr master bear and caribou guide in Alaska so he had to take CPR every other year for all those years), tried to call 911 but I had dropped the phone ( trying to answer a call) and it didn’t work. He started to run for the back room where there’s another phone … then an inner voice said to him, stop! There’s no time to call ! You must pray right now. So he did stop and ran back to me where my best friend had showed up just a few minutes before. This itself was weird bc she also had two toddlers and lived 20 min away. So at 8 pm she was always at home getting the kids ready for bed etc. so her and my husband held hands over my body and prayed and I could hear the prayers. Feel them … they were a force. And they began to pull me down. I got to my body and had to get in and it was so hard, bc my soul was so vast and light. Fluffy almost… and my body was so dense, small and hot. It was like being forced to enter a Turkey in the oven which had already reached the temp to come out and be carved. It was so uncomfortable. Hot. But I was in. Couldn’t open my eyes… but aware I was back. They did call the ambulance after praying and the ambulance went to my old address and didn’t arrive until 45 min later and my heart rate was still just 16. Later I recovered and they let me go from the hospital. It was so clear and …. Amazing tho, ya know? Bc I knew we don’t die. It was more a life changing experience than having my kids. Fast forward to after the surgery… March 22… and then Christmas after, so a year ago. Just constant pain and not being able to lay horizontally ( as in sleep… in bed). So talking to god, asking is it ok to put a gun in my mouth? I’ve always heard suicide was not … so … god what to do here, bc I’m not able to keep this up. Just an hour or so a night isn’t enough …I want to come home. And then woken up early. Was aware I was in my cubby hole ( not a real “ bedroom” but two walls 45 inches apart and a platform for a bed. A window by my pillow to have fresh air … 3 kids, small house, it was good enough to sleep and all I needed ) so I’m aware… of all this, but eyes closed… and from very far away , Infinite far, comes an entity… zooming close to me in just one second . Fast! And he asks , are you ready to go? ( I knew he meant to the other side), and before I could say ( with my mouth), yes! I’m ready! … my soul answered, “ no. I still have stuff I want to do”, and with that, the entity reversed backwards, to the same direction and was gone . The entire thing just took like 2-3 seconds. So fast. And I was so disappointed to be still here.the opposite of me and my big mouth… my soul spoke too fast. Gave the wrong answer.., but it was the right one… My daughter is still a teen. And it’s been hard for her. She also isn’t connected to this life. Never was. Wants to “ leave” all the time. So staying … I try to encourage her to keep trying to find something fun or good here. She’s super smart, super wise… and could easily be a model. Just stunning beauty. But even all that… she struggles to stay. So it’s her, why I stay too. If I leave she will too i think. A few months ago, I had a church group who comes to help on the farm sometimes, call and ask if I wanted to call a woman bc she has a tree down. Do we want it? Judy is her name. She’s in her 80 s. We end up talking on the phone for a while. She’s super interesting . I tell her about first NDE. And she comes back and says she’s had two, and tells me them. Drowning when a kid was one, but then she says , and I’ve had one encounter with the angel of death. And he’s fast! I hadn’t told her about my encounter which I think was also the angel of death. I can imagine if you have a whole planet of ppl… 8 B, so many to help over, every second or so, you wouldn’t have much time for each one for sure! If only one word to describe him, it’d be “fast”. So that’s it. My two spiritual encounters. There’s more too… why I can sleep now. Lay horizontally… A pastor named Tom loud. He’s on you tube. Shoreline church just N of Seattle. You can look him up. When I’m super down I watch class 4 or 5 … can’t remember which … around min 18 is a very tall young man waiting for a bus with a baseball hat and marijuana socks! He’s so funny bc he gets so dumbstruck when it happens. I drove from near anchorage to Seattle ( actually my daughter drove me bc I could sit in driver seat for more than a few minutes) last October. He prayed for me and I can lay to sleep now. This is very long… a book even now. Ha!
Its the goosebumps that countsHi im m21 from scandinavia and ive been having this little ich behind my ear that “something bad might happen soon”
What should i do lol
Doom prep
Whatch it go down on news
Or nothing
Bless your heart...
The aims of these countries' going into this depressing show must have been "Fucking Full Steam Ahead Cunt!" (FFSAC for short).
These countries signed the Paris Agreement. The UN rang "code red" eighteen months ago. We are at perhaps 1.2 degrees of warming at the moment, and we are beginning to see extreme and deadly climate events occurring at a greater frequency.
I'm clinging to the hope that this lunacy will cease, or at least subside, once the older generations fade, and the young become powerful.
This is the thing. Using politics to force people to do so is out of the question as well, it's political suicide. That's why we get municipal plastic bag bans and whatnot because it's all we can really muster without causing people to openly protest.
I know doomerism isn't helpful, but I don't see much room for hope in the future of "climate action". When the world goes to shit those who have the means will seize control of whatever and whoever they can.
And there's enough uncertainty in the future to stop most from jumping ship, not that there's any safety in jumping ship early. So, we'll cling to our crumbling economic systems as we get pushed further into poverty (I can't buy land now, and I certainly won't be able to as things get worse)
We're all just along for the ride... I don't think homesteading will be much better than holding on to our lives as we know them. When things start going really badly we'll make do as people are doing now, where things are already going badly, whatever that really looks like.
I just wonder how long we really have, and if there's anything we can really do to adapt in the face of such uncertainty.
youre a breeder if you breed. fuck else you wanna call it
we quite literally are acting like a virus; unimpeded growth, damaging and sickening our environment, and looking to spread to new planets to do the same shit there.
personally i would say mfs who think they have the right to impose life on new people are the dr frankenstein, mengele, anime villain monsters.
Hey, can't tell if you're curious and want to discuss, or are trying to get me to blow a whole lot of time thoughtfully answering these borderline impossible to 'answer' questions just so that you can try to dismiss something I've said in each answer, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
You can ask any questions you want! I'm sure I don't have all the answers, or even most of the answers, and there's a non-zero chance that I can't answer a single one to your satisfaction.
I'm not ChatGPT but as a dumb primate language model, here are some suggested answers!
1.) If I had full control of the United States and I tried to do anything to meaningfully change the status quo I'm sure I'd get assassinated by someone.
2.) I am indeed worried about extremist groups rising to power all over the world, and it seems like this is underway in many countries as we speak. Freaked out people seek comfort from people claiming to have all the answers.
3.) WWIII - depending on your perspective, it's already started. Tensions seem to be at an all-time high, but I also have seen too many "sixteen times the world was almost obliterated and you idiots had no idea" videos on the internet to think that I have even 10% of the real information about what's happening behind the scenes. Things seem tense. At least, that's what the primates with lots of followers seem to be saying right now.
4.) If I had ten minutes to deliver a message to everyone in the world, I wouldn't talk about collapse. I would highlight how each of us has a completely unique set of experiences, and despite all our differences, we have a lot in common. I would express my respect and love to each of my fellow humans, and I would wish them well in the times to come.
5.) I don't know if I have a lot of thoughts about Anarcho-Nihilism. I'm sure I barely know what that is. But some sense that there should be no state, and that nothing matters? Am I in the right ballpark? I think it's inevitable that some people end up thinking that this [system*] is preferable to the current set of living arrangements. I don't really think that the system can be 'fought'. Maybe fighting it is the "right" thing to do but I don't know if it does anything. If you can't beat them, join them and get assimilated and feel bad about your life for the rest of your life? I don't know. I mean, if "resisting" feels like the right thing to do, for you, wherever you are, whoever you are, then I guess do that? There's certainly lots to resist. But at the same time, I wonder, is it simply causing the person doing the resistance a lot of stress for questionable results? I don't know. I'm not personally an Anarcho-Nihilist... at least I wouldn't title myself that way.
6.) We're just primates. Can we be violent, selfish, and greedy? Yes. Of course we all can be. Anyone is capable of murder. The vast majority of us don't, because we have stakes in conformity, because our mouths and bellies are full, and because we're not upset enough to do that. Only a very small number of people kill for reasons other than extremely profound emotional duress, maximal desperation, or self-defence. Greedy? I mean, we have the propensity. We are not always, though. Someone who is greedy one day could be generous with someone else, the next. Or have an epiphany. Or be generous, have trauma, and then become greedy. The word "deserve" is loaded. I think that the word comes from a lineage of religious-adjacent concepts and while you may not have meant it that way, I am reminded of that a lot when I see that word. Instead, I might say that what's happening is simply the inevitable, thermodynamic, biogeochemical conclusion of a race of barely-sentient primates (us) who figured out how to burn that black goop that was seeping out of the ground, and use it to power big stinky machines. We weren't really wise enough in any given moment, to look ahead and have enough foresight to change how we did things. Fossil fuels, right now, allow us to have enough food* for 8 billion people. Burning those fossil fuels is killing us, but it's also feeding us. Turn it off, and we starve. Is it greed that keeps the pumps running, or a desire to eat? Things are complicated.
7.) Morality, answered in a paragraph in a comment thread that sixteen people will read. Get it here, first, folks. No, I don't know. I have no idea how to answer that. What's right for "humanity"? What's right for "non-human mammals"? What's right for plankton? Should human life have more value than other life? Would a 'better' form of smarter, kinder, wiser life evolve if we were all gone? Do all lives matter, or are we just members of a population of vertebrate animals on a particular planet around a particular star in the corner of the galaxy, and there's nobody to judge what the morality of our particular circumstance is? I, personally, in my little, short life, go out of my way to help people in my immediate area when I can, when I see a need. I stop to ask if people with car trouble need help or need me to call someone. I stop if I see a dog that looks lost. I gave a homeless kid my jacket one day in 2013, because it was hella cold out. Am I a hero? No. Does it matter? Not really, except maybe that kid was warm for a little while until someone else stole it from him, or he lost it, or the cops threw it in the garbage when they arrested him a month later. I have no idea. Despite the fact that he killed himself a couple months after saying it on the Vice documentary about him, Michael C. Ruppert said something that stayed with me. Something about living with the 'warrior's stance' or something. Get up each day and face the world so that you can hold open the possibility of some kind of success or victory tomorrow. Seems like a good philosophy.
What are we at now... 8.)? Hope. Good question. I don't know. There's a Portuguese word (any native speakers jump in and correct if I have it wrong) - Saudade. It's like a nostalgic, melancholic, wistful sense of longing for something, but as much as you're sad, you're also kind of OK with it. At least, that's how it was explained to me. I feel that for the world. The planet is miraculous in many ways. Way nicer than Venus, or anywhere else we could fly to in our lifetimes. We did a lot wrong - to each other, to the planet, to life on the planet... to ourselves. Our way of life is coming down hard, no matter how you slice it. Maybe the bug-eaters will solve the problem. Maybe our great grandkids (all produced in test-tubes, of course, and owned by the company that made them), or the AI they program, will come up with some sustainable way to exist on this planet over the long term. Maybe collapse will come hard and quick and fast and a lot of us won't make it, and some will. Maybe in "the time after" to echo Derek Jensen, there will be fresh water flowing in the streams again, and children smiling and playing under a tree somewhere. Certainly humanity has been through tough times - ice ages, the Younger Dryas, volcanic eruptions that blacked out the sun for a hundred years... this is bad, and maybe worse than any of those single events, but it's still not as bad as Chicxulub. I know that was before our time by a lot of millions of years, but the Earth has been through worse. It's also (at least as far as we can tell) not sentient, has no feelings, and doesn't therefore care, the Earth doesn't. It's a ball of mostly molten nickel-iron, its core the same temperature as the surface of the Sun, with this impossibly thin hard rock crust on it, with a whiff of breathable gasses covering it, hurtling through a cold dark vacuum of space radiation. If any of the factors that enable life on this planet changed by 10%, all life would be over. In that scope, and at that level of zoom, I'm stunned and amazed that I'm able to hit a keyboard to make alphabet soup show up on the screen and communicate with someone elsewhere on the world whom I'll never meet and yet, we can still convey meaning at all... The future is infinite. In that, there's hope. I have no hope for the stock market though. Nor the Edmonton Oilers - they suck balls.
9 or something.) Plans for my future. Yeah, hard to make those when I think we've come loose from the roller coaster and are just falling through the mist into the abyss. Sometimes I'm in 'everyday dude mode' where I make sure I'm paying for my cable bill, getting my dog to the vet, making sure the dishes get done, and going to my job to be an EffEcTiVe TeAm MeMbEr, wHiLe GeNErAtInG VaLuE fOr tHe StakEhOlDeRs. Then, at other times, it's midnight and I'm writing a 10,000 word response to some dude on the internet (who I hope isn't just using this as an opportunity to call me a clueless shithead, though hell, if that makes you feel better, then fill your boots!), and I think, shit man, things are complicated. I still floss my teeth, but I'm not that sad that I'm middle-aged and have no retirement savings at all. Will I make it there? Doubtful. But, I'm excited to go to my buddy's wedding this summer. Gotta live each day still.
10?) Meaning of life. Yeah, you're really going for gold. Bro, I have no idea. I don't think it has one. Life exists. That much I know. Here, on Earth, anyway. We human primates, for whatever reason (doesn't really matter to me) had big brains enough to make noises to each other that allow us to generate and share complex ideas and plans and intentions with each other. Then we wrote it down, made tools, made tools with our tools, and kept climbing a tech tree until we can leave mean comments on YouTube from a phone with 8 CPU cores that lasts 48 hours on a charge of electricity that we pretty much all have running through our walls like fucking magic... We exist.
We exist. I have no idea about the rest of it. Thanks for asking. What do you think? Same questions.
You dunno about the whole WEF conspiracy theory?
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-57532368
The Great Reset means different things to different groups.
Stereotypically the Right in the US believes there will be an Authoritarian Socialist One World Government that only enriches oligarchs
----------------
Then also stereotypically, the left sees elites and bastard capitalism letting leaders and oligarchs enriching themselves now and leaving us to the scraps, when it doesn't happen
-------------------
We're basically fighting over which type of apocalypse will happen and why.
Edit: Elites will want to get rich however they can. I don't blame people for believing the theory if they're not full on climate deniers.
Or just at least slow your shit down. It doesn’t make sense at all.
You found the loophole!
Nice
I wonder what percentage of your brain is still functional.
It does a little bit it doesn’t give my life back. it’s just such a deep deep trauma … inside my lumbar and pelvic area. Every move seems to make it worse and ya know, we are made to move…not sit. 20 years ago I ate some improperly handled salmon and went into septic shock. Died. ( no heartbeat, respiration. Eyes open and glazed) , left my body by a silver cord. Floated up into a vast darkness but attached to the cord still in my mid section, so I couldn’t go further. I was like a kite. My two toddlers were attached at the other end , anyway, had this whole spiritual experience and I had to come back ( bc of them)… but I know for certain we don’t die…our soul survives. It was such a gift to have this experience. It was more real on the other side than here. So I don’t fear death. It’s more a matter of having my kids ready to let me go. My son is ok I think, but maybe one or both daughters aren’t. It’s loving them so much is what makes it hard to go, ya know? They are so sensitive and this world is so harsh. Last Christmas after months of not being able to sleep for more than an hour or so bc laying horizontally made the nerve pain ratchet up. I just didn’t want to be here, and was having an inner dialogue trying to come to grips with the reality of my failed body… so weeks went by, asking god, is it ok to suicide out? I want to respect the life I was given. But … I can’t sleep, walk, ski, bike, play guitar, paint, enjoy any aspect of life. So … can I go now was my question. Another spiritual experience happened ( don’t want to bore u , unless u want …bc this is long already ) but it wasn’t my time just yet. So… I’m still here. But I think it won’t be too long until the time is right, and it’s ok to go.
Yes.
And I sincerely appreciate your willingness to not just say "pill pushing Big Pharma stooge, don't you know if you take just ONE 50 mg tramadol pill, you're damned to a life of sucking dick for dope while you live in a garbage dump! Oh, is the big crybaby in pain? Just lose weight and do yoga you winy fucking fatass; or just be vegan, I'm vegan and clearly it makes me superior to all you losers." (These are all things that doctors say to anyone in pain, and also are the typical responses to every single health related topic on the internet).
Thank you for thinking for yourself and opening your mind.
Sorry if I'm so passionate. I have a PhD in pharmacology and have been on the front lines against The War On Drugs for the last 2 decades.
No because I worry about my personal safety as a woman
The French are rioting because the government raised the retirement age to 64. The US retirement age is 67. No one cares.
The French are rioting because the government raised the retirement age to 64. The US retirement age is 67. No one cares.
We need a type of flu that is quick and painless and affects all eight billion of us (I know H5N1 is painful, this is hypothetical). It will take thousands of years, but eventually Earth will recover without humans.
Hey you seem like you know some stuff. Can I ask you some questions?
What do you think people should do to prepare for the likely outcomes of collapse?
If you had full control of the United States what changes would you make to give your people the best chances at survival?
Do you worry about the risk of the far right nazi-type using collapse/ environmental crisis to gain power and control?
Do you think a third world war is a likely possibility from the coming chaos?
If you had 10 minutes to deliver a message to everyone in the world regarding collapse of course - what would you say?
What are your thoughts on Anarcho-Nihilism? Which I think is fighting the system just for the sake of getting in some damage despite the fact the whole thing seems pretty damn hopeless.
Do you think mankind is generally violent, selfish, greedy? And on some level that we deserve whatever is coming for us?
Do you believe there is any moral obligations that people ought to follow in their lives in relation to all of this? Are you able to say you know what is right and wrong?
Do you think there is hope, at the very very least, for the survival of the hunter gather human?
What are your plans for your own future?
What do you believe the meaning of our lives will be living through what seems like a fast approaching hell?
Gauge the world on a scale of 1 - 10How would you gauge the world today on a scale of 1 - 10 on the outlook for future human survival, including reasoning if possible?
I have been looking at the current state of international conflict, environmental destruction, and emergence of new disease. I have determined things look a certain way to me, but wanted to hear other opinions to see if I may be either over- or under-estimating the situation.
>It's political suicide to advocate for an end to economic growth
It’s suicide suicide not to
can you step out of candy land for 1 minute and join us here in the real world
I don't know. I can't really predict how future US policy will effect my travels. I imagine I just keep going until I find a place secluded enough where not even America cares. You can't stop the war machine. It's gonna get what it wants in blood and treasure. I understand that's an extremely cynical view, but when you see injured infants whose entire village was destroyed by hellfire missiles because it was a suspected Taliban training site; it kind hits that cynicism home. My hope is to stay far away from potential US targets.
Fuck I need to proofread better. This is a word salad lol. Basically I keep going until I don't have to. I don't intend on fighting or even being an issue. I just want to be left alone.
Are... are you trolling? Haiti, which has a capital overrun and in large part controlled by gangs (which have ties to various political factions and figures)? Sri Lanka, where last year the country ran out of fuel and thousands of people stormed various government institutions, including the residences of the prime minister and president? Pakistan, which is experiencing regular bombings (car, suicide, and otherwise) and attacks by extremists on police headquarters in major cities?
I mean...
I'm glad there are plenty of people in this thread articulating this better than I could. I got into a small back and forth with some folk calling anyone talking about overpopulation fascists yesterday and ended up basically being told to kill myself. I don't think I articulated my thoughts well enough, but they're basically in line with what you said. There's no moral "solution" to overpopulation. Nature will take care of the issue in its own way if we can't find such a moral "solution" and it will be neither moral nor immoral, just nature doing its thing.
In this sub there's a contingent of people who will just call you a fascist and tell you to kill yourself for bringing it up.
Things even worse than they appear ?The environment, the economy, world turmoil, all appear to be in a bad place right now, but I get the sinking feeling like we're not being given the whole story and things might be even worse, or much worse then that.
Yes
A tornado touched down in LA County today…
Sooo a how much longer do we have left on this earth? 5 years? 10 years? Less than 1? I know there’s not an exact timeline but what is honestly the most likely scenario for the current path that we are on?
Careful now, they'll start calling you a breeder and talking like third rate Anime villains about how mankind is a virus
There’s also an html version here http://synthesis-report.com that’s easier to read on mobile!
I was thinking even more generally not just corporations but society at large and not just the S word but all types of death.
The smart ones will find a way to profit from climate change. Until they can do that little will be done. I am sure a lot of people will lose their lives due to the changing environment and people not being used to the new diseases they are exposed to. Just like the American Indians died enmasse when settlers and explorers brought European viruses to the Americas. Will there be planned "culling"? Anything is possible especially when it comes to the poor and the displaced.
Well thing is, let's say you do a lot of long form reading and you learn something. If you want to share it, you can do a lot of long form writing. Then other people who do long form reading will read it. No one else will though. So if you have some information you want to share with a lot of people, then you have to accept reality and figure out how to create something they'll engage with. What form is superior definitely depends on your goals.
Can we all collectively say "once in a lifetime recession" so no fucking government forgets it.
My partner got an aspergillus niger (black mold) infection in her lungs while on chemo. Really not great, like, hey, we're fighting cancer over here, could you fucking not?
There's a neutral -suicide web forum that had to migrate off reddit when their sub got banned. I had never even heard of it til the media helpfully decided it was a great idea to draw attention to it in the guise of "we need to ban this horrible website!!!" like jfc people cant have **one place** to discuss suicide uncensored, they've had issues with hosting providers cancelling on them - ya know the "make your own website!" joke but that doesn't matter because how the internet works its impossible to be fully self sufficient. I think its still up right now but very controversial.
RIP 💙
This baffles me to no end. Like, nobody WANTS to hear about another pandemic. It sucks all around. But just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it isn't happening or won't affect you...and I guess that's where I differ from the idiots out there, because they truly seem to believe that "out of sight, out of mind" is an appropriate worldview for pretty much everything. Infuriating.
i’m ignoring you cause your annoying and full of shit so stop fucking harassing me lol. fucking moron.
They don't understand much, I pity them. They run on xanax, anti depressants, sleeping pills, beer from 4pm on... while at the same time think they've found the formula on how to live.
I lived in Colorado for two years, so know exactly what you are talking about.
Don't get me started on the $75k Alzheimer's drug the FDA knows isn't effective and causes brain bleeding. In crazy times, going against the crowd becomes necessary
The problem I have with this sort of thinking is that it assumes that the hierarchies and weapons and industrial capacity in society will just disappear and everything will be leveled out and the people with survival skills will fare better.
But that's not what will happen. There will be increasing fortification and doubling down on power structures, use of the police state and border walls and all of that. Long before you get the chance to live off your farm with those skills, some sort of police force, armed agents of the very rich and/or organized crime, will come and take it from you. They're going to take most of the land, they will dominate the roads and the supply chains and the ports and all of that long before we get to the point that everything just collapses. They already have plans like that in place (they just say it's for preparing for a contested invasion/occupation). They already have military and police training camps and have a lot of experience operating in civilian populations all over the world. They will ramp all that shit up in full force long before you get to be a skilled farmer. The road between now and the deaths of billions isn't short- it's probably going to be generations of increasing authoritarianism under extreme shortages. If the ruling class doesn't put you in a camp, what's to stop roving bands of desperate people from taking your cattle at gunpoint?
I just don't get how people think any of their skills could possibly be useful in a collapse like we are imagining here. Look at the migrant crisis right now, the millions of people fleeing their homelands. Do you guys think none of those people have handy real life skills? Most people on the planet still live relatively close to the land. Not everyone is as alienated from the products of their labor the way workers in the US are.
Shut the fuck up.
That (USA) generation allowed the whole fucking world to be destroyed. They are mostly sailing off into their ignorant delusional sunset while everything burns.
Idgaf if some of them "tried". There are things they could have done that we can't discuss here, and they didn't.
Fuck them.
It’s doctor approved for some chronic illness. I don’t wish to discuss my current situation as it is personal. But people thinking they know what is good for you is ridiculous. All this antibiotics hate is misguided. Using antibiotics off label is bad. And prescribing them when not needed causes resistance. But they save lives when used proper and definitely have a place in chronic illness
Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn
World serves its own need
Speed it up a notch, speed...
If there is one country that is serious about weather, it’s Germany. Any hopes of fixing things would be there, but I will be a good German and be pessimistic.
Exactly
>It's political suicide to advocate for an end to economic growth
Only because the robber barons are in charge of the Politicians.
We could be living in a nuclear (relative) utopia, but no some rich cuck oil barrens had to fear monger to stay in power and rob the generations to come of their future
Yeah, I agree. Consumption would have to decrease. There is an argument to be made that if "green" sources of energy had been given the same the attention and research dollars that have gone into petroleum products for the last 120 years, we'd be in a far more comparable position in terms of energy density, efficiency, etc.
The other thing too is that lithium ion batteries and solar panels are almost 100 percent recyclable (not sure about wind turbines). I mean so is gasoline but it's a far more energy and resource intensive process.
At the end of the day all I'm saying is, we have the tools to do it, without culling 7 billion people. Contrary to OPs thesis and what the capitalists would have you believe. Although as long as the few control the world's resources and are only motivated by profit, we have no chance.
If we were run by enlightened despots, it would be possible, maybe, to convince enough of the right people to change societies. We are for the most part run by a mix of imperfect democracies and secret or not-so-secret cartels. We don't even really know who runs the cartels, and the electorates are all brainwashed by cartel-owned and -influenced media.
So, yeah, "the economy" is a stupid justification for collective suicide. How will we change trajectory in the time we have to resolve this in a controlled fashion? If this were a plane, it would be time to put on the parachutes. A controlled landing is not a high-probability outcome.
I know your comment is just a "gotcha!" troll and you're not engaging in good faith, but your comment got me curious about Reddit's carbon emissions and so I looked it up.
I found a couple sites that evaluate Reddit's footprint and it turns out it's among one of the worst sites. Looks like I'm done using this site. I already got rid of my only other social media, (Facebook) last year, so this won't be much of a loss.
So yes, reddit should shut down their servers lmao. Maybe then people like you would go outside.
[https://www.neowin.net/news/new-carbon-emissions-calculator-shows-tiktok-and-reddit-to-be-the-worst-offenders/](https://www.neowin.net/news/new-carbon-emissions-calculator-shows-tiktok-and-reddit-to-be-the-worst-offenders/)
That's horseshit. The smart ones like Gates will obviously figure it out sooner, but the elite are all about self preservation. Even if that means no more growth. The economy is pointless when money loses it's value. Action WILL be taken. In the form of mass culling. The rich will kill people off, or just let them starve, while they hide away in bunkers.
Wow.
Well he sounds like a piece of shit.
Let’s place some bets. What could this mean for northern hemisphere summer? I bet another heat dome in west coast North America, hurricane season past letter k, and drought all across Europe/ North Africa.
Someone's reading comprehension is in the toilet. It means the temperatures have risen at a higher rate than in recent years, which indicates that heating is accelerating. The ocean heats up all the time because of this thing called the sun?
As if I'm gonna trust some loser on reddit who can barely type over the Washington Post, the UN and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in the first place. Fuck off troll, there's no place for you in this conversation if you're that misinformed.
What will the ecological consequences of bird flu be?There has been a lot of discussion about how bird flu *could* collapse society *if* it achieves human to human transition and keeps its lethality rate of 60% — however, what is already going to happen with what sounds like a ton of birds dead? I’m thinking about what birds do and these are their roles I can think of from the top of my head
- spreading plants
- eating insects
- being eaten
- eating carrion
So I would assume the plant life will be really affected because they can’t spread as much and then will be eaten by unchecked insects. Maybe more diseases since those can brew in carrion? And I admittedly don’t know what animal might live off of birds except other birds and cats, so is there a link I’m missing?
Let me know. Trying to picture the whole thing
For everyone: carry narcan always and know the signs of an opioid overdose. You can save someone's life and it's super easy to administer. An overdose looks like pinpoint pupils, blue lips, rattling/gurgling, not breathing, not able to be woken up. If you have someone exhibiting these signs, administer one dose of narcan and call 911. Wait 2 mins and if no improvement, dose em again. If they've stopped breathing on their own at all, rescue breathing is recommended if you are comfortable with it. pinch nose, lean their head back, breathe into their mouth every 5-6 seconds. Generally these people do not need CPR. CPR is only required if their heart is not beating.
For people using any kind of drugs: always test your shit to the best of your ability before using. Fentanyl test strips and other reagent tests are available through dancesafe. I wouldn't waste them on anything presumed opiate because it's always going to be positive for fentanyl - but cocaine, meth, mdma, pressed pills - test. Get the ratio right! follow the instructions otherwise you can have false negative/positives. Next, use fresh clean equipment, metal straws that are yours alone, a clean surface, clean syringes, whatever. Next, use in small increments. You can always add more, not take away. Next, never use substances you are unfamiliar with alone. New batches can be unpredictable. Always have someone able to help nearby or call the hotline for don't use alone. They will just ask your location and stay on the phone with you to ensure that you are okay.
For people using illicit opiates / xylazine: All of the above applies. If you don't have access to clean needles, you can order them on amazon. Narcan should be available at pharmacies or health departments. Do research and always have these things. In addition, be aware of sores developing around injection sites. Early intervention is best. The best practice is the xeroform wraps with bismuth in em if you can order those. I've seen that to heal them up better than anything else before they become giant craters. Switch up the location you are injecting. Try to transition to smoking or snorting if possible. You may still develop issues, but it's less dramatic than injecting. I've heard of people shooting up once in the morning and then smoking all day to maintain, that way they give their skin more of a chance to heal. Don't use alcohol or peroxide on open wounds to dry em out. Just clean with a dial soap and warm water.
Hey dumb motherfucker: Solar PV is already the cheapest power source that has ever existed in human history. Adopting that everywhere would SAVE money for most people.
SS:
Richard Heinberg sober assessment of the dilemma of policy makers and politicians regarding energy policy. It's political suicide to advocate for an end to economic growth and a ramp down of per capita fossil fuel energy consumption, but that's the only way we have any chance of avoiding catastrophe.
Easy to understand why. He was a piece of shit but the middle east seems to function better with strong hands. It would just be nice if the hands were strong and not absolutely sadistic and brutalist.
Yes, birds are essential to keeping our ecosystem in check, providing for food and culling populations.
We dont want great leap forward bird populations or we might end up with all kinds of horrific side effects as we reach warmer seasonal temperatures.
In case you want to read the report on the web, or mobile, there’s a responsive html version here: http://synthesis-report.com
I think this is more about the larger corporate push for automated censorship of suicide due to fears of it spreading like a disease, not the specific rules or policies of /r/Collapse
Found the QTard.
It is absolutely true that a lot metals are smelted in electric arc furnaces, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Thanks to thermal expansion, it can be quite catastrophic on the machinery used to carry out high temperature industrial processes to be allowed to cool down so that is avoided as much as possible. So while it is theoretically possible to smelt metals and do other high temperature processes using the intermittent so-called renewables, the massive overcapacity required to avoid costly power disruptions is why it has yet to happen in reality.
Furthermore, when it comes to solar PV, the Siemens Process is the one mostly used to purify metallurgical silicon into polisilicon and it is a multi-day high temperature chemical vapour deposition that also cannot tolerate power disruptions. [Source](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361250287_Troszak_TA_2021_The_hidden_costs_of_solar_photovoltaic_power_NATO_ENSEC_COE_Energy_highlights_Vol_16_pp_22_Copyright_2021_NATO_Energy_Security_Center_of_Excellence_httpsenseccoeorgdatapublicuploads202)
I've been attacked and called a fossil fuel shill for posting that article here before, so I have done some background research on it and the author. Turns out he opened a project on ResearchGate in 2011 where he hoped to be the first to be able to prove the viability of 'solar breeding' (using solar to make solar) through a meta analysis of the literature. He updated it in 2019 that after reviewing thousands of papers from all varieties of sources he still didn't have enough information to be comfortable giving an estimate and then he wrote a scathing indictment of solar and especially the dishonest way in which it is sold to the public. And by scathing indictment, I of course mean that he provided a detailed explanation of how they are made which very clearly highlights how they are anything but "clean" or "renewable". The point I found most interesting is that when cutting the wafers, around half of the material is lost to sawdust. Also this great line:
>Other than the continual deforestation necessary to provide the wood chips and charcoal used in PV manufacturing, no part of any PV power systems are self-reproducing in nature.
Sorry for the long comment, but I also recently revisited the controversy around the Siebert & Rees paper and I still agree with them that their critics, if they even read the paper, did not understand it. I couldn't help but notice the second author on the Fthenakis paper this time. Anyone who has attempted to get a handle on EROEI should be familiar with him because he really seems to be the reason that it is such a wasted concept. It's an interesting theory that is useful for explaining resource depletion, but a group of academics, of which Raugei appears to be the most prominent, have used it and some very questionable methodology to pretend the so-called renewables are equivalent to the fossil fuels in terms of EROEI. They are the ones that run highly theoretical models where every solar panel is perfectly oriented and every day is cloudless for the entirety of their "30-year" lifespan and nothing ever goes wrong. Seriously, [in his response](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421517302914) to Ferroni & Hopkirk, he assumed 0% downtime!
[He also attempted to get Prieto & Hall's book, Spain's Solar Revolution, censored](https://energyskeptic.com/2017/tilting-at-windmills-spains-disastrous-attempt-to-replace-fossil-fuels-with-solar-pv-part-2/) because they found, using real world data, that in sunny Spain, the EROEI of solar is less than 3:1. I have no doubt Prieto & Hall went the book route because they knew they would never get passed the academic gatekeepers, but that should not be an indictment of them.
One last note, in their reply to Diesendorf, Siebert & Rees mention that:
>We were therefore somewhat surprised that most of the comments and
questions that have come to us in private communications have been
markedly positive, many expressing gratitude for seeing such unpopular
yet evidence-based and common-sense assertions in a public forum. Some
have expressed relief for no longer feeling like a lone voice or that
they have privately held the same view but have been reluctant to
express it for fear of backlash.
Which is very similar to what we hear on the climate. I like to believe it's true, because the opposite is even worse.
For now discussion of suicide is considered socially and economically disruptive and is to be shut down by the 'bots.
A few years from now the 'bots will find it necessary to aggressively market suicide as a solution to Human Resources problems. The Quietus kits depicted in *Children of Men* will no longer seem so far-fetched.
Wow! This jumbled word salad REALLY was relevant to the topic at hand. What deep thinking.
Your mom can support me.
How does your awareness of collapse influence your religious beliefs?
Perhaps... But a significant portion needs to die within a few months. I find that highly optimistic, but possible.
It happened for a large number of reasons, including the fracturing of our attention, but also as we had more new means of entertainment, music simply became less important.
When I was young, someone would buy some albums, and then a bunch of people would come over to their house and all listen to these albums, because music was expensive, and rare, and what else could we do before the internet and home computers with a few TV channels, the radio, the cinema, books, records, and that's it?
If you bought an album you didn't really love, you would listen to it a lot anyway to get your money's worth out of it, and sometimes he discovered you really liked it. Or not, but you knew it anyway.
I have no problem with long-form music.
The trouble that Doom Metal is disappointingly bland and lacking in weirdness.
I was hoping for something more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz774iTTD0Q
Thanks for the good info.
The trouble is unfortunately that in industrial scale bird meat farming, there are so many birds that the symptoms above might not get noticed until it is too late.
If bird meat farmers really thought of their birds as living creatures whose well-being was important, they wouldn't be in the field in the first place.
>People who talk about suicide want help
Not always. soemtimes they just want to 'let go'
exactly
there's a difference between talking about "your own potential death" and suicide as a societal issue or common problem or thought
The current population growth rate is about 1% right now and the population has increased over 70% in the last 40 years.
Here's a list of populations and growth rates for the last 70 years: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/world-population-by-year/
You can see that the annual growth rate has always been at least 1% for every single year in that time.
Wow you sound like you need a users manual bro.
Location: Philippines
3 students in my school committed suicide in one academic year (this year).
Current presidencial office refuses to address even the most common issues. Inflation is rising, more people are becoming homeless, and drug abuse is still an issue. Bulakan, Bulacan is being consumed by the ocean due to rising sea levels. Temperatures keep getting higher annually. Teenage pregnancy here is more common than ever, schools might become militarized due to the government wanting to reimplement the mandatory ROTC. Everyone is addicted to social media, believing everything they see.
This country had a chance, and it blew it.
I've personally had the honor of being present during the deaths of multiple of my family members and friends family. I never saw fright, just courage and acceptance.
My grandfather was concerned. Not for himself, but for his family.
My grandmother *chose* to end her dialyses. She was gone in a day, after spending the day prior having one on one meetings with all the family she could.
My friends uncle ate some food, received his last rights, gathered his family, and died peacefully.
How much death have you personally witnessed?
However, if people act as a community, rather than desperate individuals then there is hope.
Smart people would no longer be spending their time working pointless jobs and instead could work out the things that that need intelligence and showing those who don't, then its not such a problem. People with lower IQ can still do tasks, they just can't work out processes from scratch.
Maybe don’t feel so bad. You have no idea if many of those Gen x’ers are drowning in debt to fund their lifestyle. I’m another Gen X’er that can’t take fancy vacations either but like you can pay all my bills and don’t have expensive debt (other than a mortgage but I’m ok with that type of debt if it means I don’t need to pay rent). Instagram and other social media show the absolute material highlights - we don’t know at what cost.
But the transformation to zombie causes activation of the animal finding, hunting and killing genes. So clearly you are wrong about that, at least in the (very likely) zombie scenario.
**Location:** Canada
Winter has been whacky where I live. February in particular was a mild month, with about two weeks of spring weather before getting reasonably cold again. In fact, this March has felt more like a classic winter than February did. I regularly checked [Ventusky.com](https://Ventusky.com) and saw that Canada and Russia were the only countries with a consistently classic winter this year. The United States and Europe were particularly mild in comparison to prior years.
Otherwise homelessness is on the rise, along with substance addiction and crimes. These problems are affecting urban/suburban areas that never once had these issues. It is geographically spreading, the police response is questionable and government policies aren't resolving this issue. The news media are circulating rumors about potential vigilantism from citizens who've had enough with the rising crime. I've personally watched my birth city's Downtown deteriorate over several years, as I once commuted there for work. Corporations withdrew their head offices, some businesses have shuttered, the homelessness is more visible, people are openly doing drugs in the streets and police are sentries on the subway trains.
The situation is getting worse.
There are two different types of Gen Xers: the ones who managed to fall on the Boomer side of the success line, and the ones who fell on the Millennial side. It's very much broken down by year of birth, I feel; those of us born in the mid-'70s to early '80s—or the ones who just had a setback or two to put us behind our peers—are frequently drowning with the Millennials.
It's not that I WANT to be like the Boomers. God, no. But I gotta tell you it sucks when it seems like so many in your cohort are looking toward retirement, taking fancy vacations, and so on. I live in a tiny walkup apartment and probably will never buy a home. But then the other side of the coin is that at least so far, I've been able to eat and pay my bills. I'm not struggling. Which is more than I can say for the people younger than I am. I'm sorry.
It's just misery, all around, and we're all lonely and bored and freaked out. How could anyone NOT be a doomer?
How many people could a 4°C world support?The IPCC and other organizations have made models showing different climate scenarios, outlining a few likely temperature increases by 2100. Some of these are very (over) optimistic, like the 1.5 degree scenario. Others, especially the 4°C scenario, would be a disaster. Warming from 2.5°C to 3.6°C is very likely, and climate scientists tend to be conservative in their estimates.
​
Very little is actually written on the nature of these scenarios and how they would affect society and individuals. Just vague statements like "agricultural yields may decrease" and "more extreme weather events," and "heat waves."
I think a better question would be "how many people could a 4°C world support?" Johan Rockström, a scientist and director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research commented on the 4°C scenario that “It’s difficult to see how we could accommodate eight billion people or maybe even half of that.”
What do you guys think? How many people could a 4°C world support, and what is the future of the climate going to mean for people? I was born in 2000, so I'll probably live to see 2075 at least, granted that insane weather events or other collapse-related things don't kill me early.
Source for Johan Rockström's statement [https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/18/climate-crisis-heat-is-on-global-heating-four-degrees-2100-change-way-we-live](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/18/climate-crisis-heat-is-on-global-heating-four-degrees-2100-change-way-we-live)
My point still stands that oxygen content and bacteria will make sure we never become hydrocarbons. I can edit the comment to say "not as much oxygen" if that suits you. Seems pedantic to me, but whatever.
Edit: updated the comment for you. Enjoy your day.
Do you know what a "predicament" is?
Why do you think there's always a solution?
Agree though - nothing can be done. Or, maybe more accurately, nothing _will be_ done. Nothing _has been done_, either.
Enjoy your Bang Energy drink, /u/BangEnergyFTW! This feels a bit like embedded advertising, now that I think about it.
I believe TikTok actively censors words like suicide or died/death; that seems to be where I first noticed that trend online.
EDIT: typo
You cultists are hilarious. You need to actually read expert opinions on this subject, not dudebros on WSB man. I can't even imagine being this ignorant yet this confident. This is sad.
Holy mother of Christ what a bunch of lies wrapped in propaganda.
Found the bag holding wallstreetbets guy
The only people who use JOPOW are wallstreetbets morons lol. Please don't fall into that cult.
>That was really good and surprisingly politically non-biased
Please don't think I'm trying to be a complete asshole to you, but the only people who think being "politically non-biased" is important are people who are so politically uneducated that I frankly have no words for it, and who don't understand that the vast overwhelming majority of all of our issues today in this nation are due to Republicans, full stop.
As Republicans strip us of our rights, use Nazi propaganda tactics, pack our courts and supreme court with unqualified partisan extremists, their leadership exclaims publicly that they're domestic terrorists, obstruct anything remotely actually useful to anyone and attempt to overthrow our democracy to install Trump as a dictator, politically uneducated people like yourself have begun to *boil my fucking blood*.
Did you not exist for the past 6 years? How in the absolute *fuck* can you not see what's been happening?
They're fascist authoritarians. They're quite open about this now. They check almost every one of the 14 points of fascism laid out in Umberto Ecos book Ur-Fascism.
Did you see how Tucker Carlson purposely and *completely* misrepresented what happened on January 6th, doctoring footage heavily?
They're out here creating full blown, in-your-face doublethink propaganda and people like you want to carry water for these fascists and sit around and proclaim we need to "listen to both sides," fuck outta here.
You think so? I have had major clinical depression and there was no choice I could make to solve my depression. It was simply not in my control to not be depressed. I get that addiction can rewire your brain to make a person want a drug and become ill if they don't do that drug. But you can physically remove yourself from access to those drugs. One can not remove themselves from their depression even with medication and therapy.
Speaking as a former addict, I cannot stress this enough:
Your brain will not make rational, good, logical choices. Addiction grips you in your entirety. You know you may die a horrible death but you don’t care because more likely than not, whatever pain you are feeling (emotional or physical or both) needs to be drowned out by your high, even if it kills you.
They are real, vulnerable people that are at the mercy of these drugs.
I’m blessed to have gotten away, but just barely. I have been clean for over two years from heavy hard drug use. My brain is finally really healing and I understand now that addiction started off as a choice and eventually became something I was a slave to.
I used to be apathetic towards addicts when I was younger because my oldest sister was/is an addict and she hurt me. Then I became one decades later. Talk about karma.
-Edited for spelling.
Some people turn to these drugs from despair. It sounds as though this was the case with you. I’m genuinely happy that you were able to turn your life around. It must have been a Herculean effort and you should be commended. You have my utmost respect.
But be real - some people decide to start using because it sounds like fun. And by now, everyone has seen and heard what this use can and will do to them. It’s not a mystery and shouldn’t be a surprise. So even in despair, it is still a personal choice. Same as suicide. Can we react with compassion and support for someone who is seeking a better alternative? Certainly. But to remove all personal agency from the decision to use is at once ridiculously enabling *and* disempowering. Personal responsibility is always a factor.
Edit: That said, we absolutely need to increase support and treatment programs.
I'll probably avoid it until I'm ready to die. Also vasoconstriction sucks for me big time.
Am I the only one who's seeing what's going on here? We're doomed, man. The whole world is going up in flames, and there ain't nothing we can do about it. Sure, scientists have been giving us solutions in their own little niches, but that ain't gonna cut it. We need big solutions, man. Like, yesterday.
And you talk about local solutions? Give me a break. This ain't no time for small-scale thinking. We need big, bold action, and we need it now. But you know what? It ain't gonna happen. We're too busy fighting over petty shit, like who's right and who's wrong. Meanwhile, the planet is burning up, and we're just sitting here, twiddling our thumbs.
So, you know what? Enjoy your small-scale solutions and your local organising. I'll be over here, chugging my Bang Energy drink, because at least that's something I can count on in this fucked-up world.
If you don't think there is anything new or different about the current age then I don't understand what interests you about this subreddit. You sound defeated, and admittedly many people share that sentiment, but everything you wrote in response to me just sounds like you're justifying to yourself why none of this is worth getting 'whiny' or 'emotional' about. And that sounds profoundly unempathetic. It also highlights a clear distinction between you and anyone who has the potential to salvage this mess, because those people will be emotional if history is anything to go by
can confirm, am literally retarded
Opinion: Future of AI combat robots --> small, fast, airborne, lethalHere's my vision of how it ends for many of us...
Imagine a squadron of UAVs sized somewhere between a grape and a tangerine that can fly at \~150mph and make <1ms decisions on friend or foe and lethally pass through identified targets intact and move on to the next. Now imagine you're being hunted by one - it has your specific identity and knows your location. The device has infrared, can detect comms, image / facial recognition, and 24 hour operational time. Nowhere to hide.
This seems like tech that should be ready now or soon, especially with AI learning how to manage swarms and conduct friend/foe ID at scale. Is it also possible that state actors are collecting global data on individual friend or foe? Would China create a dbase of Euro and US citizens that oppose China? I believe the answer is yes.
Seems like something a hostile state actor could make happen in the next 5-10 years, and if so, what's to stop them from deploying a large swarm to cripple an economy by taking out political, economic and military leaders?
cool! i have to consult a doctor before getting vaccines due to complications with one of my infant immunizations so i’d have to find a way to talk to a doctor in that world but good for you
Like Alex Jones I will eat my neighbor's liberal ass
I have found the speed with which this stuff has become ubiquitous to be curious.
Yeah, I really don't know what to make of all these smarmy corporate measures to direct people to a suicide hotline. I know they mean well, but it always comes off as *"go call this number and leave us alone, this is the wrong place for that stuff"*
People try to be open about their ideation because they want to connect with someone, they need to just talk and be human. But it seems like there is a new push from higher ups to shut these conversations down. Is it just liability? Idk
I'll only really panic when it's spreading through our beef industry and they're downplaying half a million culling of calves and cows. Either that or people start reporting a huge uptick of pets in Vet ERs.
Anything else I'm just going to treat one day at a time and prepare as such.
Location: USA
There have been 2 jumper suicides on a college campus in my area this year so far.
It's just a miniscule data point, but in an era where any talk of suicide online is quickly being censored, shushed, or painted over, where people are increasingly afraid to utter the word "suicide", opting for "unalive" instead, because they are afraid that an algorithm or moderator will ban them for talking about it, and just this weird new puritanism that is arising around subject.... people gotta realize this strange fear of discussing it is probably only going to make the issue worse.
I didn't say lifespans, I was talking about population. And our lifespans increased due to what you said by aid of fossil fuels.
I never asked how we get out of fossil fuels.
I think you still don't get it. We have overshot our carrying capacity (which is artificially and temporarily inflated thanks to fossil fuels, exploiting the earth's finite natural resources, mowing down forsts etc.) the population will naturally fall whether anyone wants it to or not. Calling people eco-fascists when they don't mention culling anyone but are talking about reality, is delusional.
I'm not concerned about the population being too high, where did you read this? We are talking about ecological overshoot, a fact.
Copy any pasting "take the lead" is just goofy, and ironic as you are telling people to kill themselves. No one here called for genocide, or removing people; depopulation will occur no matter what. You can not grow forever.
> he way fent is in everything now, Xylazine will be in all fent.
Then this problem will take care of itself very quickly.
In Philadelphia you cannot find fent without Xylazine. The way fent is in everything now, Xylazine will be in all fent. You don’t need to inject it for necrosis to start and the withdrawal is worse than heroin and fentanyl
What the fuck is your hobby, being a contrarian in niche subs while either voice acting as The Dude or as....a fucking wizard? Anyway.
What a bootlicking take on addiction. What a 'hippies and "urbans" ' view of who drug users are. With the clear evidence of a generation of systemic opiate prescription marketing.
I can't even start to argue against this eugenic opinion. I'm sorry to everybody who has lost somebody.
My comments are quite insensitive and show a lack of understanding of addiction and its complexities. Addiction is not a choice, it is a disease that affects the brain and can have a significant impact on a person's behavior and decision-making abilities. It is not a matter of being weak or strong, but rather a complex interplay of biological, psychological, and environmental factors.
Furthermore, my comment about society culling the weakest among us is highly disturbing and lacks empathy. We should not be content with a world where people die on the streets and are ignored. Instead, we should work towards creating a society that is compassionate and supportive towards those who are struggling with addiction, providing them with resources and treatment to help them overcome their disease.
Yes.
The consequences for health would be disastrous, eating animals aren’t even good for you.
Look, man, it's a bummer what's happening to those addicts out there on the streets. But let's face it, society has always had a way of culling the weakest among us. It's just evolution, man. Survival of the fittest. And those junkies out there, they're not exactly at the top of the food chain, if you know what I mean.
Sure, it's messed up that they're getting mixed up with this xylazine stuff, but let's be real here. They made the choice to stick that needle in their arm in the first place. They knew the risks. And now they're paying the price. It's not pretty, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I mean, we can sit here and feel sorry for them all day long, but what's that gonna do? It's not gonna bring them back from the dead. It's not gonna cure their addiction. It's just gonna make us feel better about ourselves for a little while.
So let's just accept the fact that we live in a messed up world, man. A world where people die in the streets every day and nobody bats an eye. And let's just try to focus on our own survival, because that's all that really matters in the end.
I'm currently reading "Stolen Focus" by Johann Hari, and it goes into the real ways in which modern society is actively trying to take your attention away. In case you wanted a better resolution to overstimulation instead of just being told "dont do that thing".
Arbitrum Airdrop Free MoneyThe timing of Arbitrum-Labs's latest initiative is excellent, as more people are becoming interested in blockchain technology. 03.20.23 \[Arbitrum-Labspw\]\[https://twitter.com/Arbitrum\_Labspw/status/1638010214925385728\]
Sounds like you aren't interested in who is actually creating these emissions as much as you just want to complain about America. Classic reddit.
What year will we collapse?
I bet you're fun at parties. The whole world is collapsing, let people have a laugh.
I'm on phone on going to take your Word for it. I do really wonder if soy imports are mostly for salmon though. And we do import a lot of meat, also. And 2018 had that heatwave.
I don't think there's much import of feed for livestock on land a in a year within the norm .
Your presumptive definition of ‘past’ is ignorance.
Given your attitude towards human ingenuity and overall predicament in form of “power will never cease to be” is quite a preposterous assumption, which grounds in ignorance. Therefore, projection.
Never mind that billions are not exposed to bitcoin. Mass migration alone will in-directly kill the utopian pernicious bullshit.
Our population is still growing exponentially, but yes, that exponential growth is _predicted_ to decrease until it reaches a rate of 0% around 10 billion.
However, what continues to grow exponentially at an undiminished rate is our total consumption, and our total waste product.
You’re completely right. That’s why I have taken upon myself to read a book now for hours without being distrac- Oh did you see that cute cat on TikTok?
Will phytoplankton give us more time?Ive heard that despite taking up only 1-2% of the total global plant carbon that phytoplankton is able to remove around 40% of carbon exsisting in the atmosphere. When world governments start scrambling to find a solution when things get really bad would they turn to increasing the amount of phytoplankton in the oceans? Would that be enough to set back our inpending doom 5-10 years?
​
Source: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24311124/#:\~:text=Abstract,about%2040%25%20of%20the%20total](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24311124/#:~:text=Abstract,about%2040%25%20of%20the%20total).
A world without fossil fuels can only support 1 billion people, not 8 billion peopleScientists at MIT have made the En-ROADS climate simulator so that people can quickly simulate how much the world will warm (1). I had a chance to use the tool recently, and I was extremely dissipated because this simulator completely ignores 1 HUGE problem: how do these dramatic changes affect the world's population?
In order to have an accurate and useful climate simulator, the tool should also estimate how many people would be able to live in the world. That is a very challenging question to answer.
In order to accurately answer that question, a scientific team would need to perform a scientific study and have the study published in a Scientific Journal, such as Nature or Science.
At best, we can only estimate how dramatically the world's population would be affected by stopping fossil fuel usage completely.
So, here is a list of things that would be necessary to do to stop Climate Change now:
* The world would have to stop using fossil fuels completely
* So, oil, coal, natural gas, etc couldn't be used at all
* The world's population would be forced to dramatically decline from 8 billion to approximately 1 billion nearly immediately. I don't know exactly how many people could live in a world without fossil fuels, but I'm using 1 billion people as an approximation because that is how many people lived on Earth in the 1800s (2).
* In the 1800s, people didn't have electricity, cars, trucks, tractors, planes, etc.
* The world's population would have to dramatically decline because fossil fuels are used to produce fertilizers and other chemicals in farms. Also, diesel is used on every farm around the world to power tractors. Additionally, diesel is used to power trucks to transports raw crops to factories. Fossil fuels are used to power the factories and turn the raw crops into edible food.
* Additionally, fossil fuels are used to transport the edible food to stores around the world. Millions of ships and trucks are used to transport food.
So, there is simply no easy solution. We have made fossil fuels a huge part of society. Now, eliminating fossil fuels from society would take society back to the 1800s.
Now, if you talked to climatologists in private, they will admit that society is basically screwed (3). Climatologists know that society is screwed.
------------
references:
1. https://en-roads.climateinteractive.org/scenario.html?v=23.2.1
2. https://heartland.org/opinion/how-many-of-the-worlds-8-billion-will-survive-without-fossil-fuels/
3. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/30/total-climate-meltdown-inevitable-heatwaves-global-catastrophe
Lol, keep living in the past then. You do you.
The world's electricity will never shut off completely everywhere all at once, and that's all that is required to keep Bitcoin working as it was designed. It's doesn't care what you think about it and is on its way to widespread adoption as the best money. Look up Gresham's law. It's inevitable.
Yes
Ass hats has got to be one of my favourite names, right up there with douche canoe!
Xylazine and the culling of addicts…The DEA has issued a new warning about xylazine. This drug is an animal tranquilizer which is not fit for human consumption. Regardless, it has ended up in heavy circulation mixed with fentanyl.
Fentanyl addicts, opiate addicts in general, will die more than ever as this continues. A xylazine overdose can not be helped with narcan. Injecting xylazine can easily lead to necrosis of the skin which can lead to loss of limbs and be deadly.
Kensington, the sad and hellish drug cesspool of Philadelphia, has the highest percentage of xylazine thus far. I feel that the addicts who live on the streets there have already been abandoned by society and the city. There will be even more deaths now. As society declines and collapse accelerates, the most needy among us will be culled. Xylazine seems an expedient way for this horror to go down. To me this is a sign of collapse as addicts die in their thousands and it’s just become an accepted part of modern life. There is no one coming to help, and no resources are being spared for addicts. They aren’t even treated as people anymore.
You have a great way with words. Well put my friend.
F
Anyone watch Extrapolations?https://tv.apple.com/us/show/extrapolations/umc.cmc.4uoqxmxlnipm9zsc88bkjyjx4
Watched first episode last night. Supposedly took place in 2037. Definitely how I picture things are headed.
>Attempting to convince upper management... is a lesson in utility.
Found the DemSoc
Hydrogen peroxide foggers are becoming more widely used in hospitals for this reason.
Need to find the bugs that can eat my dead will to live.
Honestly, you aren't contradicting the fairly dire article, just making it worse.
And both of you forgot one thing - there will be a long time delay between the permafrost melting and the water going away. When the permafrost melts, you get a great big bog, which will take decades if not centuries to dry, if it ever does.
Two slight quibbles:
> These lands will have to go through biomass decomposition or mineralization to become agronomically fertile. This is the process of "soil growth", it takes thousands of years to get a decent layer.
This is one of the very few things that technology could fix faster, if technology still existed. The energy and raw materials are there in the permafrost, they "just" need to let out. If our technology continues to improve, in 50 years having some genetically engineered bug or plant that could break this down in decades seems quite doable.
> The soils are also very polluted, naturally and from human pollution accumulated in the last two centuries.
I don't know about the self-pollution! The human pollution thing is only going to be for a tiny portion, however: most of the world's permafrost are in areas where humans never venture, even to pollute.
None of my quibbles fix any of the issues, but tighten the case for the prosecution a bit.
> Right. The author actually didn't address that (unless I missed it).
I didn't see that either. The article was already not very optimistic, and this makes it worse.
Most of the effects of an exponentially growing humanity remind me of cancer.
Well, one and a half orders of magnitude greater anyway. :-)
It could be that only 2% of the permafrost is in immediate danger of thawing, for example...
Many died of old age. Many gave up in despair. Some were killed. Some were subverted.
At least one of these pics appear to be in the Netherlands. A lot of misinformation has been spread in favor of the farmers lately, how the government is suppressing them etc... The truth is the entire landscape has been ruined, farms and fields are everywhere you look. The manure destroys entire ecosystems. Its already too late to act.
I feel like I’m in a schizophrenic situation. I work at one of the largest corporates in Australia. I can have conversations with people all around me and fairly senior management about collapse topics and they wholeheartedly agree. Then their actions say the complete opposite - they fly around the world, eat out, hardly anyone is vegan, drive their super-expensive cars to work instead of catching public transport, lots of luxuries etc etc
These people are all mostly wealthy so the way I read the situation is they know collapse is coming but the attitude is that it’s not their problem.
Region: Zürich, Switzerland
Failed Credit Suisse bank was Acquired by UBS in a sort of "shotgun wedding" orchestrated by the government. Currently, there are 17k jobs at sake and ripples are running across the whole business landscape - additionally, now we have a tremendous monster of too-big-to-fail institutions backed by 100 billion CHF (effectively taken from the people as it's government money), which will bury our economy in case of shit goes down.
Safety ? Oh yeah, I really tought that for some time. Not happening. We're completely fucked here, as people pretend to be "conservative" but are ok with any kind of new high-tech while not keeping the old systems that works.
And we pollute our soils the same way you do, in the most retarded way, while we know we're killing the microbiological undersoil lifeforms. But sure, do imagine I somehow have access to a special swiss bunker or that I'll eat the food we cannot produce without NPK fertilizers (that we need to import, to burn down life in the soil).
I doubt your wishes will be fullfilled. I pray for fucking chaos as soon as possible, as any other kind of lifeform besides us wouldbe so fucking thrilled to see our worthless, pathetic and sad civilization crumble if they could understand the scope of what we did.
yawn. i aint doing shit. how about you?
This is the way
YES
Rip
Humans pose no threat to life itself. Life will survive anything we throw at it.
Damaging the planet is bad because it puts HUMANS in danger of going extinct, not nature.
Also nature DOES need us because global warming is naturally happening. Earth is a sinking ship. Eventually the sun will expand and boil the oceans and life will go extinct and then the planet will be vaporised. Eventually so will the universe. Light will die and any resemblance of a particle will become so lonely such a realm could only be described as hell.
Aliens are likely but let’s play it safe by assuming we are the only life in the universe. The conditions on earth were just perfect enough. This means, we may be life’s only hope. We have to survive. Yeah yeah blah blah humans are evil. So is nature. We’re not all bad. The fact we even have an opinion on it means that we are goodness itself, good is a human judgement, and that’s worth a lot. We (or similar life forms) have the potential to win the ultimate fight between good and evil by defeating the mortality of the universe.
It would be a terrible tragedy if humanity commit suicide. Although I reckon intelligent life has already evolved on earth many times and been wiped out, their stories and plastics and tv shows and nuclear wastelands hidden within a millimetre thick band of the earths crust, not even a memory left of them so that we could learn from mistakes we are probably repeating right now.
yeah, guerilla gardening is about creating available food for people
Nope. I do want the current capitalist system to end tho and for A.I/tech to just help us stop working.
Yeah man just do what you want, enjoy your life your health and friends and family while they’re here. Chase your dreams!
Yes.
If you have no idea how intersectionality works, then you should stay quiet on it. Same as how you expect people who don't know how science work to shut up.
Psychological preppingI’m wanting to start a discussion on the different things one can start doing in hopes of preparing for the mental toll a collapse might take. The biggest issue I see is the amount of death and suffering one might experience or have to live through. Is this something that relies on thought or does it take running through multiple scenarios to have a framework to rely on?
Psychological preppingWhat methods are there to cope with all the turmoil and chaos of a collapse ?
This is the way
hours of reading later I found the comment section, lost my shit twice and found Jesus then lost him. What a wild ride
.
Bottom line: nothing can help (most of) us except radical structural change in the way we approach political economy.
Take your skillset and to put it to work in service of that. This includes everything from local adaptation to radical organizing to writing books and articles (although the latter aren't worth much without the former).
Part of radical political economic change includes confronting the unviability of *all* our existing and industrial-age structures. There's a lot of inventing to do, and a lot of hands needed at it. A hydrological engineering skillset won't give a person privileged insight into questions of human motivation and meaning, but it absolutely needs to be a part of collective structure-imagining and -making (in which we all learn from and with one another's domains of knowledge).
EDIT: also, congrats on being in remission! I wish you good things!!
based
It just will.
It’s disturbing that people will still write climate change off as a “hoax” or a scam. What profit incentives are there? Big solar is gonna take your job? Your property is gonna get cleared for a wind farm? The companies that are against actual meaningful action are already taking jobs, and destroying homes to make more profit. The Oil companies and fossil fuel industry have done irreparable damage to our planet, and millions of peoples lives. Their only incentive is to make profit, they want you to support their industry and demonize renewable energy, then when you agree with them, they bend you over and destroy you again. If you truly think “climate change is a scam”, who’s telling you that? Republicans who are in the pocket of big oil? Democrats who will roll over for a fat stack of cash? “Centrists” who claim it all to be alarmism. Meanwhile the people who are actually educated enough and experienced enough to speak on the topic are silenced because they’re seen as the “academic elite” by anyone who has a bachelors degree or less. Our experts are screaming into the void, it’s too late.
In my own emotions: I don't want it to happen, but since it is happening, I want to get it over with already. I am tired of feeling like any investment of energy would be a waste since everything is coming apart anyway.
In terms of society: I want human society to change in a lot of ways. I would hope that we could make these changes without collapse. But since collapse is happening, I'm choosing to hope that it brings about a couple positive things, instead of just dreading the inevitable sea of awful.
I'm in the UK but we do share the 'fuck you I got mine' attitude.
We're not even at 1.5c yet mind you and its getting bad enough already.
Anyways please you fucking imbeciles, look around you: Your money won't save you. We will all die together. Some sooner than others, but inevitably, we are all collectively fucked thanks your fucking dumbass fuckery. You already know what to do. Make a pact, do it together, and cut your losses you psychopathic narccisistic pieces of shit. Everyone dying is bad for money making. AI isn't going to be developed in time to replace all those slaves/workers you own.
Thanks,
Everyone not the ultra wealthy / ultra elite
They are not “telling people to stop driving cars”. *some* governments are *talking about* (ie not actually implementing) policies to encourage people to get around without driving - walkable cities, Bike lanes and public transport.
No one is coming to take your car. Stop listening to conspiracy theories.
The actual "OR" there is:
*Decide who suffers:*
**Current adults, older adults.**
OR
**Current youth, babies.**
-------------------
They don't frame it as such, but that's what it means if you hash it out in terms of interests.
Current economy and *wealth* serves the interest of the current adults who are the owners and professionals in the system. The economy collapsing in the future due to climate chaos spares them now, but fucks the young generations. The final generational "fuck you, got mine".
-------
edit: damn, it got locked.
here's a fun chart from the AR6 synthesis report:
https://i.imgur.com/TVJfQBC.png
https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/syr/figures/summary-for-policymakers/figure-spm-1
FYI: It's already too late, and was too late a decade ago.
Humanity still depends on fossil fuels at every stage of agriculture (tillage, irrigation, fertilizer, harvest, processing, global distribution & manufacture of essential equipment) to feed billions of people; there is no way to put a sudden stop to that.
Likewise, whatever happens in developed nations, China and India are only accelerating their economies. The atmosphere doesn't care about per-capita, only total accumulation of emissions and that is still rising.
FYI: It's already too late, and was too late a decade ago.
The planet still depends on fossil fuels at every stage of agriculture to feed billions of people; there is no way to put a sudden stop to that. Likewise, whatever happens in developed nations, China and India are only accelerating their economies. The atmosphere doesn't care about per-capita, only total accumulation of emissions.
Slow down! Have a rest! Play a game to take your mind off things: [Apocalypse Bingo](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApocalypseBingo/comments/10qotoh/apocalypse_bingo_v3)
well I **absolutely *refuse*** to be enslaved without that creature at the very least providing me a gender neutral vegan leather choker collar, with sustainably raised vegan metals. I also require a bedazzler to customize said dog collar to my liking.
you tell that dirty fuckin Glyke dragon wannabe I'm super serious, and it can fuck right off if it thinks I'll accept some old rope or a chain around my neck. i ain't the one. I'll quit. watch me!
remember the "nothing will fundamentally change" promise that Joey B made at the beginning of his term? by that he meant to say "lol fuck y'all I'll be long dead before this shitship sinks. I'm only even up here for the free housing and helicopter rides. deuces!✌️😎"
You have no idea how that works. Reality has a left-wing bias.
that is not most people and starting off is always hard, this self-defeating attitude is just funny, if you want to work and are willing to sacrifice you can live a good life. The problem is people like you as soon as you get a degree feel like the lifestyle should just start right away. Most people in America are living very good lives, you are just mad because you have not gotten there yet, if you continue to work hard it will happen but not be given to you simply cause you have a degree.
the most valuable jobs in society are some of the most underpaid…teachers, social workers, people removing garbage…fuck outta here to the ppl on Reddit who have been lecturing me about Jeff Bezos getting compensated according to the value he brings to society…without Amazon my life would be…slightly less convenient
ppl become that level of wealthy by exploiting others…fuck outta here to those trying to lecture me about them being compensated according to the value they bring to society 🥴
Location - Adelaide, Australia.
Everything is shit. The increasing number of homeless people is alarming. I was at a petrol station filling up and some young guy came up to me asking for 5 bucks to buy some food - the clerk saw him and told him to fuck off or he'd call the police, the guy came sneaking up to me again behind my car and I felt bad so I tossed him a few 2 dollar coins. I went in to pay for my petrol and the clerk and a taxi driver were talking about him, they said that he doesn't want food, he just wants the money to gamble in the poker machines in the pub across the road - I have no reason to not believe them, but anyway, I can't not give people at least a bit of money if they're begging for it, as long as they aren't violent or aggressive.
All the bottle shops(liquor stores) are packed at all times, it seems like people can sense that the end is nigh, and they're just trying to pack in as much enjoyment as they can before it's too late. People are more irritable than ever, less connected etc, it's like when a dog knows it's going to die, it goes off and finds somewhere to hide, society is doing that en masse.
In 2006-2007 they could have bailed out the homeowners whose mortgages were underwater.
It would have stabilized the derivatives those mortgages were bundled sold as thus correcting the issue, but instead they bailed out the banks.
Basically said "fuck you" to regular homeowners (many of whom were approved for ARMs that were predatory).
It never seems to change.
Northeast USA here…there has been almost no snow this year and feels even more extreme than the eerily little amounts over the past few years…in the early 2000s September used to feel like “fall” now it’s become part of extended summer
Let's say every average person in the world knew about this because the scientists were able to go door to door telling them or even beam thoughts directly into their minds.
What do you think people should actually do? And the bigger question, how could they actually do it?
Climate Change Is Stuck In A Catch-22So, scientists continue to act like the World still has time to prevent Collapse due to Climate Change.
Just today, scientists released their last "final warming" regarding Climate Change. So, the Global Warming has already raised temperatures by 1.2C since 1900 (7). Scientists claim that the World can still keep Global Warming from passing 1.5C (1). Exceeding 1.5C would trigger several Tipping Points (2). These Tipping Points include: Greenland Ice Sheet Collapse, West Antarctic Ice Sheet Collapse, Low-latitude Coral Reefs dieoff, Boreal Permafrost abrupt thaw, and Barents Sea Ice abrupt loss (3). These Tipping Points are just the ones that would be triggered if Global Warming rose by only 1.5C and didn't continue rising. There are many additional Tipping Points that would be triggered at 2C, 2.5C, 3C, etc.
Well, when scientists says that the World still has time, they are lying. Scientists are completely ignoring how smog interacts with global temperatures.
If we abruptly stopped using using fossil fuels, Global Warming would dramatically increase by 0.5-1.1C within a month (4). See, when oil is burned, it produces smog and CO2. Smog stays in the atmosphere for only a few days (5). However, CO2 stays in the atmosphere for 300-1,000 years (6). So, if we abruptly stopped using fossil fuels, smog would disappear from the atmosphere within a month, but the CO2 would stay for 300-1,000 years. So, Global Warming would rise by 1.7C-2.3C within a month.
So, humanity is stuck in a Catch-22. If we tried to stop Climate Change from triggering Tipping Points at 1.5C, emissions would have to be stopped as soon as possible. But, stopping emissions would remove smog from the atmosphere, and Global Warming would dramatically raise temperatures by 0.5-1.1C within a month! So, humanity is basically screwed!
Chaos and riots will happen eventually, the only question is when. The UN predicts that there will be 1.2 Billion refugees by 2050 (8).
The only question is will the world collapse before 2050???
----------------
References:
1. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/20/ipcc-climate-crisis-report-delivers-final-warning-on-15c
2. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abn7950
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_system
4. https://e360.yale.edu/features/air-pollutions-upside-a-brake-on-global-warming
5. https://molekule.com/blog/why-is-smog-dangerous-for-your-health/
6. https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2915/the-atmosphere-getting-a-handle-on-carbon-dioxide
7. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/world/global-warming-critical-threshold-climate-intl/index.html
8. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/sep/09/climate-crisis-could-displace-12bn-people-by-2050-report-warns
ANOTHER Bank has collapsed.https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/signature-bank-taken-over-by-new-york-community-bancorp-fdic/
Another bank collapse, the third largest in American history after the Silicon Valley Bank collapse, the second largest in U.S. history as of 10 days ago, has occured as of 8 days ago. The financial system is collapsing, and reports say [an estimated 190 other banks](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/real-estate/2023/03/19/svb-collapse-new-banks-could-fail/11504269002/) are at risk of similar catastrophic collapse.
Scientists deliver ‘final warning’ on climate crisis: act now or it’s too late | Climate crisis
Source? Also no. There are the same amount of LGBT. It’s just that it was more acceptable to be yourself for awhile so ppl felt comfortable being out. Also the population is 40% more than it was when everyone hated gay ppl There is zero evidence there are more percentage of gay ppl. That is repube propaganda that you have fallen for.
Nah. I paid lots of taxes I'd rather it go to feeding people than bailing out banks.
California (drive between NorCal & Socal)
Torrential rain for weeks on end now.
Pharmacies empty, hospitals full. So what's really got so many sick despite fully vaxxed majority?
The sky is falling - MSM says it's space debris but I seen so many fleets of falling lights from hundreds of miles aparts for days on end now.
Drugs, prostitution, anon park/bathroom orgies, Car thefts, robberies, & Homeless - everywhere ; all kinds of neighborhoods urban to rural, every month seems worse; cops distracted often.
Bank runs!
Most mass produced free range broilers are given ACCESS to a tiny strip of dirt outside the chicken house via little door (bare minimum to qualify for"free range" designation). Rarely if ever, do they venture outside during the 2 months of their lifespan; it's too risky (staying with the flock=safety).
It's more likely that a small farmer (I work with them) with small flocks of pasture raised broilers or layers (read: anything less than 20k birds/year for broilers, less than 10k layers the producer is considered small. Pasture raised hens are typically dispatched after 2 years when their egg production slumps) would catch avian flu from one of their chickens that comes into contact with fecal matter from infected wild birds (Ive watched blackbirds, starlings, sparrows, etc... drink from the flocks water, eat & then poop into the layer's feed troughs). That being said, the virus would have to slip through a farmer/ producer's immunities (say they just got over a bout of covid or other virus, maybe they just got over a cold they caught from their kid who caught it at school) but the small producer is one of maybe 2 other people they employ so they gotta go into work/ check on the animals despite still being under the weather/ lower immunities. So they go out to the field, say it's raining, the farmer unknowingly breathes in/ ingests aerosols or tiny water droplets in the moist air containing chicken fecal matter (there's fecal chloroform in all our bathrooms, Mythbusters found it on every tooth brush! ) Boom, farmer contracts avian flu & we're back to the pandemic races!
Location Ontario, Canada. I'm seeing a lot more people vocally approving of hanging CEOs, Bankers, the rich.
r/superstonk
2 + years of solid DD that's been proven correct over time, we knew this was coming over a year ago for credit Sus
Hey now I reserve the right to be emo about the fact we're all getting poisoned. This is one of the few times being an edge lord is appropriate
Surviving An Apocalypse by Isaac Arthur[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCSiOB3f8nM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCSiOB3f8nM)
this might also fall under the Systemic flair or Society flair, but I think the Adaptation flair fits this video the most
Remember when some of us realized people like you don’t understand…..well….anything?
Scientists deliver ‘final warning’ on climate crisis: act now or it’s too late
Convincing corporate to prepare for collapse?Has anyone here, who works for a big corporation that is contributing to collapse, ever tried to talk internally with people about shifting business strategies to prepare for collapse?
I think I might be in a position where I MIGHT be able to make some sort of influence, although it feels unlikely. However, I work for a consulting company so the ability to spread to different industries is definitely there. They do have a sustainability sector, but it ofc is corporate bs so i have a had time bringing it up. Has anyone had any success with this idea?
Am I just going to be shouting into the void? If you have had success, how did you go about it?
Obviously there are plenty of business incentives to start preparing, even if they don't contribute to immediate shareholder value..
I don't think I can continue to work for this company as is, mentally it takes too much out of me. But the job market is kinda shit, this company takes good care of its employees and I feel a responsibility to try and change something before I just jump ship. Thoughts?
Take your own advice. Nothing you said here was informative.
More Plastic Than Fish in the Oceans by 2050!There are studies regarding plastic production that say we will experience a 40% increase. On top of this we will see more plastic than Fish in the ocean by 2050. Absolutely insane that we haven’t forced the bottling companies into more reusable packaging or at the least biodegradable. Make my bottles out of bamboo for all I care!
https://www.plasticsoupfoundation.org/en/plastic-problem/plastic-soup/more-plastic-than-fish/
The belief that 1.5C "future warming" will be "safe" and the so-called experts spreading that misinformation and so much moreWhile the rhetoric has been quite adamant for years that 1.5C "future warming" will be "safe", how can that possibly be accurate when according to the very "experts" making that claim, we are only at something like 1.2C today, yet shit is already fucked? More importantly, why are we still hearing it and why has there been no critical analysis of the most harmful piece of misinformation we have heard on the climate, that there has been a *safe* amount of anything (warming, emissions, other pollutants, species loss, environmental degradation, etc.) remaining these last few decades? Oh, there has been plenty written about the viability of that meaningless target, but little about what a terrible guess it was for *safe* or the groupthink of the so-called experts who have systematically downplayed both the severity and imminence of our present-day, full-blown, climate crisis and in doing so, prevented any meaningful climate action from occurring.
I fundamentally disagree with the idea that there is such a thing as an expert at predicting the future. That desire has been present throughout human history and while their precious models can get some things right, some of the time, so could the Oracle of Delphi. Central to the concept of science is experimentation, the testing of hypotheses, and that cannot be done for a prediction about the future--all you can do is wait and see if it comes true. Lacking the ability to test their predictions climate modellers, like many in academia, turn to the statistical practice of Null Hypothesis Significance Testing (NHST) in order to be able to perform a simulacrum of the scientific method. While criticisms have dogged NHST since its inception and in recent years [many have come to blame it as the cause of their field's "replication crisis"](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13164-018-0421-4), the practice persists [despite growing calls to end it](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00857-9) because it is the only link fields like economics, psychology, and all forms of computer modelling have to their claim that they are a science and the stronger authority that designation carries. The worst part is that NHST is typically taught so poorly to non-statisticians that it is often not done correctly. [In his 2010 study Maarten Ambaum found:](https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/clim/23/22/2010jcli3746.1.xml)
>We tested a recent, randomly selected issue of the *Journal of Climate* for at least one instance in each article of misusing a significance test to quantify the validity of some physical hypothesis. The *Journal of Climate* was not selected because it is prone to include such errors, but because it can safely be considered one of the top journals in climate science. **In that particular issue,** **we observed misuse of significance tests in about three-quarters of the articles**; **a randomly selected issue published 10 years prior showed such misuses of significance tests in about half of the articles.**
Which is common wherever NHST is (ab)used. [In his 2021 paper](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10584-021-03226-6), Theodore Shepherd drew upon a psychologist's observation that that field treats NHST as a 'statistical ritual' to ask if it is any different in the climate "sciences", writing:
>Nicholls (2000) and Ambaum (2010) both provide detailed assessments showing widespread use of NHST in climate publications. **This practice does not appear to have declined since the publication of those papers; indeed, my impression is that it has only increased, exacerbated by the growing dominance of the so-called 'high-impact' journals which enforce the statistical rituals with particular vigour, supposedly in an effort to achieve a high level of scientific rigour.**
>
>...
>
>I would add that Gigerenzer's insightful comment about "identification with social groups" may also apply to climate scientists, in that statistical rituals become a working paradigm for certain journals and reviewers. **I suspect that I am not alone in admitting that most of the statistical tests in my own papers are performed in order to satisfy these rituals, rather than as part of the scientific discovery process itself.**
>
>...
>
>Gigerenzer shows that NHST as described above, is a bastardized hybrid of Fisher's null hypothesis testing and Neyman-Pearson decision theory and **has no basis even in orthodox frequentist statistics.** According to Fisher, a null hypothesis test should only be performed in the absence of any prior knowledge, and before one has even looked at the data, **neither of which applies to the typical applications in climate science.**
The more things change the more they stay the same and today's pseudoscientific predictive computer modelling is merely the latest in a long line of attempts to do the impossible. Guessing at the future is not a science regardless of the confirmatory rituals performed! That the journals enforce the ritual so *vigorously* while in at least one randomly chosen instance a large majority of the articles didn't even do it properly, would be absurd if it weren't so expected.
Ultimately, the debate over what is and isn't a science is, like the field of climatology itself, purely academic. So long as the entirely fraudulent field of "climate-economics" is allowed to exist, let alone continue to dominate the top, policy "informing", level of the discussion, nothing the climatologists do matters, although it's arguable the modelling never mattered since even perfectly accurate models would confer no actual ability to affect the course of the climate crisis we have inflicted on this planet and **it was never necessary to guess at the future to know what we need to be doing today**.
Founded by the charlatan William Nordhaus, "climate-economics" is bad, even by the wretched standards of the intellectually, academically, ethically, and morally bankrupt religion of economics. In researching his work, Steve Keen concluded that it, "can be characterized as 'making up numbers to support a pre-existing belief': specifically, that climate change could have only a trivial impact upon the economy." In my opinion, the only thing that needs to happen at any future COPout is for all attendees to be forced to sit down and read Keen's paper, [The appallingly bad neoclassical economics of climate change](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/344034609_The_appallingly_bad_neoclassical_economics_of_climate_change), since they seem to be unfamiliar with it even though it is one of the most important ever written on the climate. It's neither very long nor technical because it doesn't need to be, which is something Keen mentions: He thought he was going to be writing a dry paper about discount rates and the suitability of modelling techniques, instead he discovered that Nordhaus' work is so appallingly bad that it doesn't pass any sort of smell test and yet it has served as the basis for the field that has "informed" everything we have done, or more accurately not done, on the climate.
The fact that the most pointed criticisms of the farce that is "climate-economics" came from one of the very few economists out there with a clue, rather than a climatologist, is alarming because Nordhaus' "research" is founded on assumptions like 87% of the economy will be unaffected because it occurs indoors (something that made it into the IPCC's AR5!) and that the weak, but "statistically significant", correlation between average temperature and gross state product across the USA today can be used to predict the impact of global warming on the economy of the future. Did not a single climatologist look into his work before accepting it as valid? Hell, with him declaring that 4C warming is what would be optimal for the con-on-you-and-me in his acceptance lecture for the Sveriges Riksbank Prize in the Economic Arts, you don't even need to dig into his "research" to know that **he is clueless of both topics.**
Which is a major problem because Nordhaus is the originator of today's belief in one-point-five thanks to [his "first intuition" in the '70s that 2C warming would be "safe](https://www.carbonbrief.org/two-degrees-the-history-of-climate-changes-speed-limit/)"... for the economy. That remained the target for years, even being codified in 2010, and was only dialed back in Paris when a group of Exploited Nations that the predictions for sea-level rise said would be largely underwater at 2C warming objected and refused to sign anything that would see them cease to exist, even if we were successful. One-point-five basically didn't exist in the literature before it was added to the political system in Paris (for example it is not even mentioned in the previously linked 2014 article on climate change's "speed limit" of 2C) because no honest climatologist viewed it as even possible and while the studies performed subsequently would confirm that 1.5 is indeed a lower number than 2, both are terrible, unfounded, guesses at *safe*. That's it though, the opinions of a charlatan and the belief that global warming = sea-level rise... our "expert" risk assessment has all the depth and breadth as the one provided by that banker who went viral last year. No wonder they have failed so miserably to bend the Keeling curve.
One-point-five isn't even the first estimation of what would be *safe*. That was an atmospheric CO2 concentration of 350 ppm which was an increase of 70 over the pre-industrial figure of 280. With hindsight, that was a much better guess at *safe* but we passed that threshold for the final time over three decades ago. That we frequently hear the "experts" babbling that there is a "carbon budget" remaining to us today, in the era of Faster Than Expected and the yearly "thousand-year" storm, is unforgivable. That wasn't true thirty years ago, let alone when they invented the term after we had nearly succeeded in doubling-down on the emissions. They may be able to rationalize away their goalpost moving by saying "The Science" has changed since then, that just means that "The Science" and reality are going in opposite directions as the climate crisis is already worse today than any "serious" prediction for 2100.
There is an interesting quote in the Keen paper from a scientist responding to a Nordhaus survey question back in 1994, before the economists succeeded in hijacking the climate conversation and when Nordhaus was still including actual scientists in his surveys, rather than just other e-conmen as he did later on:
>I must tell you that I marvel that economists are willing to make quantitative estimates of economic consequences of climate change where **the only measures available are estimates of global surface average increases in temperature**. As \[one\] who has spent his career worrying about the vagaries of the dynamics of the atmosphere, I marvel that they can translate a single global number, **an extremely poor surrogate for a description of the climatic conditions**, into quantitative impacts of global economic conditions.
Despite being considered the most important metric in modern, economics dominated, climate "science", average surface temperature is, in fact, "an extremely poor surrogate for a description of the climatic conditions," as confirmed by the best piece of actual climate science we have seen in ages, [Song et al. (2022)](https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2117832119). The authors of that study examined the trends in surface equivalent potential temperature (Thetae\_sfc) which is a more comprehensive metric than just temperature alone because it also incorporates humidity. Their most interesting finding is that rather than the Arctic warming x-times faster than the rest of the planet as is commonly claimed (what's it up to now? 4x?), "In other words, the Earth is heated more uniformly when measured by Thetae\_sfc." That we could expect higher humidity which in turn would cause more extreme weather is, "one of the most robust findings of most if not all climate model studies," and something the models actually got right, yet it is only at this late stage that someone finally got around to examining this and despite the paper being published in the prestigious journal PNAS & receiving decent media coverage at the time, it appears to have had no impact and already been forgotten as it does not conform to the field's groupthink. Rather it calls into question what it is they've wasted their time on these past few decades since **they aren't even using the best available metric.**
While the history of science is one of remarkable intellects making amazing discoveries, it is also a history of egomaniacs, charlatans, and pigheadedness which is why physicist Max Planck famously quipped "science advances one funeral at a time." The bad actors only get weeded out with time and through free and open debate. Unfortunately, when it comes to the climate not only are we out of time, but the debate has been anything but free, open, or, frankly, reality-based. Censorship permeates everything they do, from our "gold standard" in climate "science", the IPCC, which for years has censored all of the alarming parts from it's own reports, down to the individual level where, outside of a few notable exceptions, the ones that have not repeated the lies often enough to believe in them self-censor to avoid the dreaded "alarmist" label.
There were 50,000 people in Paris and despite numerous reports of discontent, [there was only one, Kevin Anderson](https://www.nature.com/articles/528437a), with the courage to speak out publicly against that failure. It will forever be to their shame that that death sentence for most complex life on this planet did not cause a schism in the field, so it is always worth listening to one of the few who has been honest with us, [especially when he says things like](https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-06-18/turning-delusion-into-climate-action-prof-kevin-anderson-an-interview/):
>I've only really become aware of **the misleading and dangerous influence of some senior academics on their earlier career colleagues** over the past two years. It was brought to my attention at one of the big climate negotiations (COPs) I was attending. Chatting to those without grey hair, it became increasingly clear **many of them were being reprimanded for asking difficult questions by their senior colleagues and supervisors.** I really found this hard to believe. But the more I asked about this the more I realized I'd been living in a naive bubble unaware of how **vibrant academic debate driven by younger academic candidates is being deliberately stifled.**
In a sane world, that interview would have spawned at least one government inquiry but when the field possesses, "a deep institutional systemic bias towards aligning \[their\] conclusions within the boundaries of the status quo," why would it? They are already telling our governments what they want to hear and any real investigation would just reveal that the emperor has no clothes. Besides, that, "\[they’ve\] chosen to forgo \[their\] academic independence for the appeal of being relevant within a debate \[their\] own analysis tells \[them\] is irrelevant," falls squarely on the so-called scientists.
Anderson also talks at length about something us outsiders have heard quite a bit, especially in recent years: That many of his colleagues **are** as alarmed as he is but the culture of censorship, intimidation, and ridicule has them too afraid to speak out, concluding that, "Typically it is more senior academics and others who hold these conflicting public and private positions." For another example of this, Bill McGuire said in [an interview last year](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jul/30/total-climate-meltdown-inevitable-heatwaves-global-catastrophe):
>I know a lot of people working in climate science who say one thing in public but a very different thing in private. In confidence, they are all much more scared about the future we face, but they won't admit that in public. **I call this climate appeasement and I believe it only makes things worse.** **The world needs to know how bad things are going to get before we can hope to start \[!!!\] to tackle the crisis.**
I call it cowardice and wish the honest ones would start naming names. For one more example, it also made an appearance in [this rare display of contrition](https://theconversation.com/climate-scientists-concept-of-net-zero-is-a-dangerous-trap-157368) from three climate scientists apologizing for their roles in promulgating the "net carbon zero" myth:
>In private, scientists express significant scepticism about the Paris Agreement, BECCS, offsetting, geoengineering and net zero. Apart from some notable exceptions, in public we quietly go about our work, apply for funding, publish papers and teach. **The path to disastrous climate change is paved with feasibility studies and impact assessments.**
>
>**Rather than acknowledge the seriousness of our situation, we instead continue to participate in the fantasy of net zero. What will we do when reality bites? What will we say to our friends and loved ones about our failure to speak out now?**
That article also has this passage about the central role "climate-economics" has played:
>It was around that time \[1997\] that the first computer models linking greenhouse gas emissions to impacts on different sectors of the economy were developed. These hybrid climate-economic models are known as Integrated Assessment Models. They allowed modellers to link economic activity to the climate by, for example, exploring how changes in investments and technology could lead to changes in greenhouse gas emissions.
>
>They seemed like a miracle: you could try out policies on a computer screen before implementing them, saving humanity costly experimentation \[WHAT DID THEY SAVE US?!?\]. **They rapidly emerged to become key guidance for climate policy. A primacy they maintain to this day.**
>
>**Unfortunately, they also removed the need for deep critical thinking.** Such models represent society as a web of idealised, emotionless buyers and sellers and thus ignore complex social and political realities, or **even the impacts of climate change itself.** Their implicit promise is that market-based approaches will always work. This meant that discussions about policies were limited to those most convenient to politicians: incremental changes to legislation and taxes.
Which is why, on the balance, I think it is a good article even if it contains blatant misinformation like: "Relying on untested carbon dioxide removal mechanisms to achieve the Paris targets when we have the technologies to transition away from fossil fuels today..." That is what Kevin Anderson was referring to when he said, "Worse still, \[his colleagues\] frequently point to idealised technical solutions, yet often with little understanding of either the technologies or their practical deliveries..." because there simply is no replacement for the fossil fuels and the belief that Green BAU is desirable, let alone even possible, is another of the harmful lies we have been fed by our so-called experts for the sole purpose of delaying real action.
That article also brings me back to a question I have wondered occasionally over the years: What even goes into the typical 'climatology' education? Do they have to spend so much time bringing students up to speed on the esoteric technobabble of climate modelling that they never get around to teaching them any real science? Because I would think you need a strong grounding in the three physical sciences yet they so often evince views that run afoul of them, most notably in their embracing of the "net carbon zero" myth. While it's great that the authors of the article have come to the realization that it is a 'dangerous trap', **what took them so long?** I have never been more demoralized in my life than the first time I came across the words "net carbon zero" as that is dependent on either impossible technology being invented or an impossible energy source being discovered that can power the existing technology. Otherwise, we do not have access to enough energy to make even a measurable difference in atmospheric CO2 content. While, like in virtually every other aspect, the conversation around carbon capture may be focused solely on the dollar amount per ton, removing CO2 from the atmosphere is an energetic process, not a financial one and while money, as a figment of the human imagination, is effectively infinite, energy is, and always will be, the constraining resource on all of humanity's ambitions. Unless the emissions are essentially zero, "net carbon zero" will never happen which is why present 'direct air capture' efforts don't even remove 10 seconds worth of our annual emissions ([0.01MT](https://www.iea.org/reports/direct-air-capture-2022) in 2022 so 0.01E6/36.8E9\*365.25\*24\*60\*60=8.57s). That's not a "good first step", that's fucking hubris.
This flagrant disregard for the physical sciences can be seen quite clearly in the newest bullshit we are hearing from the people who have been wrong all along. I find it incredible that in an article titled ["The Best Climate Science You've Never Heard Of"](https://michaelmann.net/content/best-climate-science-you%E2%80%99ve-never-heard) posted to his own website, climate crisis denier Michael E. Mann doesn't even make an attempt at explaining this "science". Just an appeal to the authority of "the experts" to claim there is no longer going to be a "warming lag" and a bunch of "blah blah blah". I call it incredible because the Washington Post, apparently having higher standards, **did** require such an explanation, wanting though it may be, in the [version they published](https://web.archive.org/web/20220402000813/https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/23/warming-timeline-carbon-budget-climate-science/) meaning, left to his own devices our chief celebrity climate "scientist" and the media's 'go-to guy' when they need to downplay **doesn't feel he has to explain himself, at all**. I always try to give credit where credit is due though and that article isn't a total loss as it does contain a claim that this "science", "... underlies the widely-now used concept of a 'carbon budget'," which is good to know.
It doesn't even require a scientific background to question this "science" when the explanations don't go any deeper than what was in the WaPo:
>Yes, CO2 pushes temperatures higher, but carbon 'sinks', including forests and in particular the oceans, absorb almost half of the CO2 that is emitted, causing atmospheric CO2 levels to drop, offsetting the delayed warming effect.
Because anybody who has been paying attention should question how much of a role forests are going to play in sequestering carbon in the future when all of the largest ones have been net emitters for years. While human deforestation efforts are undoubtedly a major contributor to that, where is the evidence that is going to slow down, let alone stop? Not only will few accept going 'cold and hungry' while there is still material around to burn, [wood chips are a necessary ingredient in the smelting of metallurgical silicon](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361250287_Troszak_TA_2021_The_hidden_costs_of_solar_photovoltaic_power_NATO_ENSEC_COE_Energy_highlights_Vol_16_pp_22_Copyright_2021_NATO_Energy_Security_Center_of_Excellence_httpsenseccoeorgdatapublicuploads202), so the Bright Green Dream requires not only on a massive expansion of mining, but deforestation as well.
But it is the idea that "in particular the oceans" will continue to be a significant carbon sink that is truly troubling because that is not what the physical chemistry says. While the oceans do take in a good portion of our emissions that's all they do, take in a portion of our emissions. The amount of CO2 that remains dissolved in the surface ocean is directly proportional to its partial pressure in the atmosphere in accordance with Henry's Law.
While the oceans are undeniably complex & not well understood even today, and the real-world doesn't play out exactly as the ideal gas laws would indicate, there is no reason to believe the oceans would continue to take in a significant amount of CO2 in a "net carbon zero" scenario, let alone one where the atmospheric concentration is decreasing. In the unlikely event that aliens show up to save us from ourselves using technology that is indistinguishable from magic, the oceans should be expected to emit CO2. The thermohaline circulation sees carbon-rich surface water replaced with deep water that is comparatively unsaturated, but that process takes hundreds-to-thousands of years to complete while the air-sea gas exchange [is believed to equilibrate in under one](https://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Carbon+Uptake). It also appears to be so trivial an effect that I have never even been able to find an estimation of how much CO2 is believed to be "sequestered" in this fashion. It certainly doesn't appear anywhere in this "science" and, unfortunately, nowadays the search results are flooded with hare-brained schemes to dump shit into the oceans to try to utilize the effect because, as it occurs naturally, it is inconsequential. It's worth noting that with satire being dead and all, [Mann's own research](https://www.asf.ca/news-and-magazine/salmon-news/scientists-see-stronger-evidence-of-slowing-atlantic-ocean-circulation) indicates the thermohaline circulation is slowing down as the oceans warm, further weakening that sink.
Additionally, Henry's Law is temperature dependent and warmer liquids are less capable of holding dissolved gases which is why the [full old "warming lag" theory went](https://skepticalscience.com/co2-lags-temperature.htm):
>As both land and oceans start to warm up, they both release large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, from melting permafrost and **from warming ocean water, since CO2 solubility in water is greater in cold conditions**. That release enhances the greenhouse effect, amplifying the warming trend and leading to yet more CO2 being degassed. In other words, increasing CO2 levels become both the cause and effect of further warming. Once started, it's a vicious, self-reinforcing cycle - an excellent example of what science refers to as a positive climate feedback.
Meaning this "science" directly contradicts the old theory with no explanation given for why that should be the case. Now, obviously it is a bad idea to base your scientific understanding off of an MSM article, but even going up one level, the most frequently referenced pop-sci article on the topic is [this "explainer"](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached/) from climate crisis denier Zeke Hausfather at Carbon Brief. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly coming from the climate user who brought us such nonsense as, '[ackshually, the models have been quite accurate](https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/study-confirms-climate-models-are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/),' **and,** '[ackshually, the models are running too hot](https://www.science.org/content/article/use-too-hot-climate-models-exaggerates-impacts-global-warming),' it doesn't provide any better explanation, which is too bad because the comment section offered a great opportunity to clear up many of the valid concerns people have about this "science" but, even with a comment directly calling out the lack of response, no answers were provided.
Going up to the final level, the paper that seems to be referenced the most is [MacDougall et al (2020)](https://bg.copernicus.org/articles/17/2987/2020/), which, despite being the source for Hausfather's claim that, "By chance, these two factors cancel each other out," is a meta study that found "Models exhibit a wide variety of behaviours after emissions cease..." I am not sure how it is they determined given, "a wide variety of behaviours," that the "zero emission commitment" would therefore be zero--I guess it could be buried somewhere in the technobabble--but I feel there is enough plain English to make a determination about the validity of this "science":
>In CANESM5 and CNRM the terrestrial carbon sink dominates the reduction in radiative forcing, while in ACCESS, IAPRAS, MESM, P. GENIE, and UVic, **the ocean carbon uptake dominates the reduction in radiative forcing.**
>
>...
>
>**Given that the behaviour of the terrestrial carbon cycle varies strongly between models and that many models lack feedbacks related to nutrient limitation and permafrost carbon pools, the strong dependence of ZEC50 on terrestrial carbon uptake is concerning for the robustness of ZEC50 estimates. Notably the three ESMs with the weakest terrestrial carbon sink response include terrestrial nutrient limitation.**
>
>...
>
>The analysis here has shown that across models decadal-scale **ZEC is poorly correlated to other metrics of climate warming**, such as TCR and ECS, though relationships may exist in model frameworks. However, the three factors that drive ZEC, ocean heat uptake, **ocean carbon uptake**, and net land carbon flux **correlate relatively well to their states before emissions cease.**
With the final passage seeming to confirm that this "science" does indeed violate the physical chemistry of the situation and that this will happen is nothing more than an assumption necessary for this, particularly GIGO brand of, modelling to work. It really feels like it is not a matter of, "by chance," but rather, "by design". Why even consider the models that lack basic elements like 'terrestrial nutrient limitations'?
Finally, this "science" just fails conceptually being entirely predicated on humanity reaching a more extreme version of the physically impossible state of "net carbon zero" than exists in any of our "plans" which already account for the natural carbon sinks. It also requires the aerosol masking effect and the positive feedbacks to not exist as well as for the ongoing Mass Extinction to reverse course even though our Bright Green Dreams call for an intensification of our all-out assault on the rest of our biosphere. The simple fact is that almost all of the CO2 we are unleashing today was originally fixed by living things over the course of millions of years. To believe it will happen faster this time around, especially given present conditions, is just delusional.
It's not surprising that we would see something like this though. While it was one thing to discuss the idea that we have to stop burning fossil fuels long before things 'get bad' when that was only a problem for the distant future to worry about, it's an entirely different thing today when shit is absolutely fucked and our "leaders" are still desperately trying to ramp up the rate of extraction. That's alarmism and violates the field's dictum of "we mustn't be alarmist". As long as that dictum remains in effect though, climate modelling will continue to be incredibly biased against our alarming reality. Any model that accurately predicted our present conditions a decade ago would have been dismissed for being "too alarmist" and had the creator persisted, their career would have been destroyed. It's quite bothersome to hear it said that "the experts" warned us ***this*** was coming because while anyone talking 2020 was called many names, they were all antonyms of "expert". The so-called experts, on the other hand, were blathering about 2050 this and 2100 that.
They were also warning almost exclusively about sea-level rise which is why David Wallace-Wells felt it necessary to open his infamous 2017 *The Uninhabitable Earth* article with the line "If your anxiety about global warming is dominated by fears of sea-level rise, you are barely scratching the surface of what terrors are possible..." I thought, with "the science saying" that we could expect higher humidity which would cause more extreme weather, that Hurricane Katrina was a good time to begin transitioning the conversation about the climate away from just global warming = sea-level rise because while that is an existential threat for many, it is not for humanity as a whole the way the extremes and catastrophes are and focusing on it has always been a way to downplay and trivialize: "So what? We will *just* build sea walls." The so-called experts not only disagreed with that assessment, they denounced it and not just for Katrina. For many years in every single article after every single one of the increasingly frequent climate catastrophes there was an "expert" disavowing any connection between our noticeably changed climate and the noticeable increase in extreme weather, much like the 1.5C hopium that accompanies virtually all mainstream writing on the climate today. Song et al. (2022) cite a 2017 statement from the American Meteorological Society that read "We're experiencing new weather, because we've made a new climate" as one of the earliest examples of the attribution **finally** being made.
While the climate has changed quite dramatically since we crossed the original *safe* threshold over thirty years ago, almost all of that has occurred in the last five as we went from a position of official denialism to, and I apologize for getting technical again, shit being absolutely fucked and even though the "science" that "informed" the Paris Agreement predicted none of this, we aren't seeing a frantic re-evaluation of our "plans". No their minimum timeline is still nearly double the length over which we have seen such a frightening intensification and we are still being subjected to the same old delusions, denialism, and dishonest downplaying.
It was seeing them all repeat the nonsense that it was 'necessary' to downplay in order to 'get anything done' that was the first major turn-off for me. Not just because it was always predicated on an appeal to the authority of "the psychologists"; not even because it was always going to fail to "spur us into action" allowing instead for the spread of the monstrous sentiment "Why should I care? It won't get bad until after I am dead"; but because dishonesty is inherent to it and there is no worse way to get people on board with something than by lying to them about it. I can't be the only one who bristles at being told that I must simply accept the clearly wrong opinions of admitted liars, can I? That they keep mindlessly repeating it to this day, when we have decades of real-world evidence that downplaying doesn't do anything but breed complacency, is just another example of how difficult it is for reality to intrude upon their groupthink.
Three decades of talks have yet to produce a single tangible result. If anything, the conversation is even further removed from reality today as the "net carbon zero" myth did not exist back then. With COPout-Fest 2022 having been sponsored by Coca-Cola, it's like they go out of their way to discredit themselves. How, exactly, does a "climate" conference end up partnering with one of the worst polluters on the planet? It is beyond indefensible for the scientific community to still be supporting and legitimizing the charade, especially since we have been hearing for years that actual scientists are just sidelined and ignored. Can it really be called a "climate conference" if it is just a bunch of politicos and economists circle-jerking about economic growth? It's a damn shame they learned no lessons from their most productive year yet, 2020, because their Carbon Indulgences do not, in fact, undo any of the very real harm inflicted on our biosphere as a result of those wastes of time, energy, and resources.
I don't think we would be any worse off had the IPCC not been formed and had they not began COPping-out. I just can't see how we would have acted any differently when the last 30 years have been spent the same the as the prior 240: Burning through the fossil fuels as quickly and recklessly as we possibly can, all while boasting about how incredibly clever we are for doing so. That the physical limits of our planet are preventing us from continuing today is to the majority, and a very large one at that, the greatest injustice of all. As long as maintaining present living standards and the biosphere-wrecking industrial system necessary to provide them remains the sole goal of our "climate" (really economic) action plans, we will continue acting single-mindedly towards making a bad situation even worse. The only thing the IPCC and COPout crowds have to show for three decades of "efforts" is increasingly unhinged rationalizations to justify further emissions and ecocide. **We aren't even at the stage where we are able to discuss the banning of absolute frivolities like cruise ships!**
While the Mystics of the Markets may declare that there are no Limits to Growth, that belief comes from a position of ignorance and nothing more. That none other than William fucking Nordhaus was involved in the deboonking of that famously accurate study is why I view him as the greatest villain in all of human history because nobody else will even come close to his body count. The reality is we slammed into those limits years ago and it's tragic really: If there is indeed still time left for us to avert our own extinction, then with the global industrial economy in its death throes and clearly not working out for the vast majority anymore, there is a great opportunity for the 'paradigm shift' to the ecological understanding of the world put forth as a necessary first step by William R. Catton Jr. in his remarkably prescient 1980 book *Overshoot: The Ecological Basis for Revolutionary Change.* But, with modern "environmental" activism having been fully co-opted by industrial interests, we seem even further from that understanding today. Seriously, when was the last time you heard about the need to be teaching the children "ecological literacy"? Ever? Now compare that to all the prattle about "financial literacy". Only one of those concepts has a physical basis in reality and it's not the one the current zeitgeist is focused on.
I guess this is the part where I am supposed to provide a hit of hopium that all is not lost, instead here is a thought experiment to help contextualize where we are in terms of "climate action":
>Imagine a world in which we were deserving of the name we gave our species and the wise apes outnumbered the silly ones 100,000,000-to-1 rather than the opposite. Realizing that their desired way of living was having disastrous consequences on their only habitat, the wise apes took the necessary and appropriate steps to reach their, non-silly, version of "net carbon zero by 2050" and in their first year of fully post-industrial living they experienced the same climate catastrophes we are suffering today. Would they consider themselves successful?
As long as the ecocidal nightmare that is the Bright Green Dream is the extent of our "plans", then we aren't even at the 'realizing' stage. The vehicle speeding towards the climate cliff is already airborne and our so-called experts have convinced themselves that can be *fixed* by painting the accelerator green. We are in desperate need of new leadership and it is well past time to stop listening to the people who have participated in the downplaying and myth-making, but with the disgusting way everyone else was treated, they would be entirely justified giving us the ol' [Ray Patterson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CVvNRQcvE). **Drastic change needs to be a thing of the past before we start talking about hope for the future.**
It already is.
Weekly Observations: What signs of collapse do you see in your region? [in-depth]## All comments in this thread MUST be greater than 150 characters.
## You MUST include Location: Region when sharing observations.
Example - **Location: New Zealand**
This ONLY applies to top-level comments, not replies to comments. You're welcome to make regionless or general observations, but you still must include 'Location: Region' for your comment to be approved. This thread is also \[in-depth\], meaning all top-level comments must be at least 150-characters.
[All previous observations threads and other stickies are viewable here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/stickies)
We need not be complicit in the collapse of civilization.Use yugot.com to help create jobs and undo the collapse you perceive.
Technically it would affect any "free range" broiler chickens since they go outside. It's the ones trapped indoors, the ones bred to grow so fast that their skeleton gives out, that are the least exposed.
I live in New Zealand, I became collapse aware about a year ago, after I had my son and decided one day to read a climate change article - just to check that everything was ok. Everything obviously is not ok.
In every part of life here collapse events are creeping in and taking over, it can be found in so many different places that would be easy to ignore if you wanted to.
In the news today there was an article about a man who died because the doctors didn't read his medical information before operating:
[https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/131548190/man-died-after-colonoscopy-carried-out-without-full-knowledge-of-medical-history](https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/131548190/man-died-after-colonoscopy-carried-out-without-full-knowledge-of-medical-history)
I go to a playgroup with a nurse who works at a small local hospital, we were having a chat about the state of healthcare and she casually commented that of course things are only going to get worse...
A week ago I was talking to the internet guy while he fixed everything up that got ruined during Gabrielle, he told me that the reason that Northland lost all cell connection as well as power during the cyclone was because someone had stolen all of the back up batteries from the cell towers that are supposed to kick in when things like cyclones happen. Apparently they're really good for solar set up's. No mention of that fact in the media though, no security for those batteries and cell towers was necessary in the past.
I also had a pretty desolate conversation with a passing roading inspector a couple of weeks ago (I live rurally, they drive around to log damage that needs to be repaired, you can wave them down for a chat and an update) about how the roads will not get fixed, things will get much worse and how he is scared his children are going to starve to death. This guy sees alot of the country because his job is to drive around and look at it all so I put alot of weight on reporting on the way of things from people like him. We both ended up crying during this conversation, this man is a stranger I do not know and I didn't start the collapse chat, he was the one that opened the door. To look at him at the start of the chat you wouldn't think he was holding that much abject terror inside him that he was but there you go. He also told me that all of the other roading guys that he works with are equally terrified about the future.
I also go to a small publicly funded, parent run play group, and the petty small corruption and holding onto power by a few, with the expectation that everyone else will fall into line and do all the work despite receiving lesser benefits plays out like a weird simulacra of the economy and our society. Most of the parents that attend this place are far more privileged than I am and they're all completely blind to that privilege. They are also mostly married to farmers so facing reality is not something that benefits them at all. What they really want to do is to pretend that everything is fine so they can act out their social hierarchies and live comfortable lives. I'm not sure how much longer I can keep taking my son, its exhausting.
The media here is a joke and our apathy in response to it is equally bad. Things like people dying due to gross incompetence are not a big deal now, there is almost no coverage of the cyclone that devastated an entire region of our country a few weeks ago, and today a small notice in the bottom corner of the local paper: the power supplier to the northland region advises everyone that due to climate events in the future power supply will be disrupted and everyone should buy a generator. Ok Transpower, so I guess you're just not going to fix anything properly then?
Oh well, more bad weather on the way tonight, this time the South Island is forecast to take the hit, hopefully its not to bad.
edit: to add that everything is also becoming very expensive etc etc
With love & despair, wishing you all well, New Zealand
300 billion. Every day is a slap in the face to people who need Healthcare.
It debunks all conspiracy theories, etc. and make humankind face the terrible reality human beings created by themselves, and shows a solution path, which might affect your selfish interests and contradicts your personal ideas but not those of the majority of the population, and humankind fate.
If it affects and contradicts your twisted selfish ideas that's another very different issue with your brain, you need help which is far from my scope. I
If the world is pretty is fine to you, and AI is totally wrong then I do not understand what the he... are you doing in a world collapse forum. Trust me. You certainly need to look the video again and again, you have been brainwashed without coming back.
THE UNRAVELING OF THE U.S BANKING SYSTEM: A CRYPTO PERSPECTIVE [THE UNRAVELING OF THE U.S BANKING SYSTEM: A CRYPTO PERSPECTIVE | by Mohamed Aboukhadra | Mar, 2023 | Medium](https://medium.com/@quantblockinc/the-unraveling-of-the-u-s-banking-system-a-crypto-perspective-bfe8894776f5)
\-DiamondHandMo (Twitter) [Quantblockinc@gmail.com](mailto:Quantblockinc@gmail.com)
lol "bailout" but still no money for universal health insurance
Arbitrum Airdrop Free MoneyArbitrum introduces a token-based reward system for platform content creators [https://twitter.com/spacelabone/status/1636506434132230144](https://twitter.com/spacelabone/status/1636506434132230144) 03.20.23
You have to learn how to DIY it. They'll fuck you at the drive through otherwise.
There have been instances where I had to take it to a guy but I knew the guy. Who would have thought a timing belt tensioner bearing would sound like that when it went bad?? That was... well. Interesting.
I mean. Dude. If I misdiagnose 3 fucking times and replace more than I need to I've still come out cheaper than having it done would have come out.
I'm evidently not perfectly normal.
I've done a lot of work on cars. Never a full engine swap but I'm thinking it's worth the risk to attempt to learn. I have two perfectly good chassis to experiment with and IF this works AT ALL I'm seriously considering getting a spare motor and learning how to store it.
Bluntly if I have my way I don't ever want to buy one of these fucking things ever again. As in ever. I mean my christ have you seen the prices??? The MOST I ever paid was 10k and that was IN. SANE. To me. Now you're talking 4 times that???? Fuck you, car industry. Fuck. You.
Whatever happened to the Geo Metro tell me that one.
It seems people dont realize the world on the other side of collapse has the potential to be infinitely more beautiful than this one.
Have you ever, as a kid, been walking in a public park and been deep enough into it where you could suddenly pretend youre in a totally different, completely natural world? Only to continue walking to find an edge/fence with suburbs or private property of some kind that cuts your adventure short? As a kid, this felt like an immense feeling of loss, of disappointment with the world itself, with humanity. A feeling of being considered a suspicious stranger by default. My body can only exist in very specific places or else I will be taken and locked up by a violent gang that exists everywhere on the planet called the police. Something felt wrong with "everything".
Why isnt food everywhere? Why is it only inside guarded buildings? Why isnt it right outside our homes, something as essential for life as food? Couldnt anyone boss us around and tell us what to do our whole lives insofar as we are disconnected from the earth and its food? Have you ever tasted fresh picked strawberries and noticed they taste many times better than anything that has gone through a shipping process? Wouldnt all of our food taste worse after shipping? Why do we insist on monocrops and a vast cumbersome shipping infrastructure rather than growing food right where we live? Isnt any other arrangement doomed for control, for centralized power exploiting/manipulating the populace?
A world where there was food grown everywhere.. wouldnt it be a liberation from the tyranny of slaving away for someone else in order to stay alive? Edible vegetation, *everywhere*. If the method of agricultural was regenerative, we could, as a species, reverse the damage done and even bring forth more life and beauty than was around before our arrival here.
What if people only had to spend two hours a day tending to their homes and gardens to stay alive, allowing for the other time to be spent however they wished? Carving pottery or silverware, carpentry, building their own homes, sewing their own clothing, making music, making love, writing books, writing poetry, playing games of their own designs whether intellectual or physical, exploring the realm of non-digital analogue inventions much more deeply, exploring latent human capacities more, inventing new analogue musical instruments, inventing new art forms, exploring a landscape without the notion of private property nor one with invisible behavior regulating fields everywhere called 'laws' (you can only do X kind of human activity on this particular area of earth)..
Imagine if you could explore the entire planet by foot and boat with no legal hinderances anywhere. Where you would always be able to find some shelter and warmth, because humanity has shifted to an operating paradigm of love rather than fear.
Where there was no more light pollution. You can see the beauty of the night sky again. Real physical human comminity exists again. All of your relationships shift to a real, analogue sphere of engagement rather than a faux, digital parasocial sphere..
The sounds of birds and insects returns. The sound of children laughing and playing wherever they please (dogs too), unworried about being run over by a vehicle nor where they can and cannot play. No more uber safe, uber boring designated areas called 'playgrounds' as we know them. Rather, the whole world becomes the playground. Wildlife returns, bees birds flowers trees forests.. everything that makes this place beautiful given a new opportunity to return. No more production of plastic waste and garbage in psychotic amounts. No more time spent wasted on the abject immoral slavery that is RENT. No more homelessness because private property is no longer enforced by the brute force power arm of a state. People rather COMMINICATE with each other to sort out living arrangements with the people around them, not just waving a document in front of someones face and calling the police.
Imagine if everyone decided the way that was most fun to live their lives was to contribute their own gifts to the world by adding to its beauty. If every individual had a commitment to life and love and beauty. This place would be paradise. Forget 'the breath of the wild' or 'the shire' or ancient greece or whatever, it would be unimagineably more beautiful than any of our current shoddy fictional or historical productions.
This current world is a sorry, sorry imagining. Nearly the dumbest possible arrangement we could manage, in fact.
A vision of a better world requires that humanity undergo a very rapid evolution in our emotional intelligence and general awareness,.. but that is precisely what collapse is - a catalyst for our collective evolution through a shared global trauma initiation and an undeniable demonstration (the horrors are mounting) of the failure of our beliefs and attitudes that have led us to collapse. A new belief is necessary - that human nature is essentially good. That life, existence itself, is essentially good. A new kind of faith - not in a particular god, ideology, set of beliefs, -ism or system of human managing, no.. a sheer faith in the goodness of the fact of existence itself. Of life itself. Because it exists.
Is existence a good thing or a bad thing, essentially? What say you?
The implications/extrapolations of your answer informs the core of your reality and behavior, of what you believe is possible and impossible, whether you know this or not. We must have faith in life again, in ourselves, in humans. The real collapse happened ages ago, when we lost this essential faith in life, and we have merely been playing out the consequences of this loss for all of our written history. Collapse is the culmination of our absence of faith in humanity. We either will regain it, and paradise will ensue, or we will inevitably commit species wide suicide. I believe in the former, because human beings are adaptable, resiliant, beautiful, and have been longing to love each other and reunite with their fellow brothers and sisters for a very long time now. That longing seeks fulfillment, which is fast approaching. The age of seperation has nearly reached its zenith.
Consider this: could we have ever made this world paradise from a place of faithlessness in our own species and selves? What were our expectations, exactly? Isnt it obvious that only a dystopia could be generated from a lack of faith in ourselves? We have become internal nihilists, regardless of how we may present ourselves socially.
And, inversely, what kind of world would a faith in humanity bring about? Where we essentially trusted each other and ourselves instead of essentially distrusting? This current one is based on a complete absence of faith in ourselves, and lo and behold it is collapsing and is a living hell.
We must have faith in each other and see what happens. We havent tried it for a very, very long time. No more power heirarchies, no more states, no more systems of reward and punishment, no more mass manipulation/programming projects via media or advertising, no more wage slavery, no more compulsory education, no more parenting with conditional love, no more laws upheld by threat of violent force. We need a friendship orientation with existence again, with all other life on this planet, with each other, with ourselves. A much more beautiful world will unfold once we begin to trust in life again, and such a critical mass shift is more possible than you may believe.
The invisible hand needs to bitch slap the billionaires.
It’s not technically “printing money” but it might as well be if you’re rich given that the whole point of QE is to artificially inflate asset prices
“Darn the wheel of the world! Why must it continually turn over? Where is the reverse gear?” ~ Jack London
"Socialism is inevitable; because the present rotten and irrational system cannot endure; because the day is past for your man on horseback. The slaves won’t stand for it.
They are too many, and willy-nilly they’ll drag down the would-be equestrian before he gets astride. You can’t get away from them, and you’ll have to swallow the whole slave-morality. It’s not a nice mess, I’ll allow. But it’s been a-brewing and swallow it you must.” ~ Jack London
Religion, the dominion of the human mind;
Property, the dominion of human needs; and
Government, the dominion of human conduct,
represent the stronghold of man's enslavement
and all the horrors it entails.
Emma Goldman
You show me a capitalist, and I'll show you a bloodsucker. ~
Malcom X
Dear future generations: Please accept our apologies. We were rolling drunk on petroleum.
~
Kurt Vonnegut
I certainly think that another Holocaust can happen again. It did already occur; think of Cambodia, Rwanda, and Bosnia.
Miep Gies
easy to think that as a result of the extinction of the dodo, we are now sadder and wiser, but there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that we are merely sadder and better informed.~
Douglas Adams
Revolution is a serious thing, the most serious thing about a revolutionary's life. When one commits oneself to the struggle, it must be for a lifetime.” – Angela Davis
“Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth.” – Shirley Chisholm
This part you wrote (and sometimes they don’t even care about themselves either) is something that hit me at the hospital the other day. There is just a metric shitload of garbage, masks and other food trash from assholes leaving or entering this nice hospital. It’s like people are addicted to despair……they can’t care about a single fucking thing. It’s this sadness spiral. I’m cleaning this fucking lot the next time I have to go there it makes me SICK! So when people’s health is failing naturally I like to understand why, well if you can’t even be bothered to take your trash to a trash can or use reusable stuff or not eat much fast food, then forget exercise, eating well, caring about others, working well, having fun, having good relationships, being smart, etc…it’s like a blob just supported by apps, gasoline and other people’s labor at that point……some of these tlc like shows are glorifying pure sadness
the only ones not feeling the pains of collapse are those in the first world standing on their bloody corpses
If I'm being honest, and there should be a lot of honesty here. I've been wanting chaos to happen since I first heard about what caused the 2008 financial crisis and how we bailed out these banks that quite frankly should have gone under the way it was supposed to happen. This is why I call myself a collapse accelerationist. I can't do much, probably to the relief of a lot of you, but the current system that we are in, needs to go and I'm all for the destruction of humanity, I cheered for the willow project being passed, not because I support it, but because it will accelerate our demise. I cheer on the laws against nature because I'm truly tired and republicans and some democrats want to accelerate this killing of the nation, then I'm all for it. I vote republican because I know they will do this, not because I support anything out of there racist, putrid mouths, but because Trump literally axed laws that were keeping banks in check and now we see the outcome. Banks collapsing or on the brink of collapse. If he didnt axe dodd frank (However you spell it) then we would not see a run on banks like this. I may sound delusional or crazy, but I'm just a poor man that wants to make sure that if billionaires live on, safe from the initial bloodshed and craziness of collapse, i want to make sure that they will live in bunkers and caves and not ever touch a single blade of grass again, i want their children to know what it likes to go outside and experience the hottest weather in recorded history on earth that they can't escape. Their own personal hell that all their families created because of their own personal greed. Confined inside of walls for the rest of their lives. No more natural, pure air to breath, just artificial. No more feeling water drops of your face, no more anything that brings them joy that they experience today. just wake up, eat, live inside of a confined space because it isn't safe outside anymore, then sleep only to do it all over again until they die. "At least we live on" Going from yachts and private planes to one confined space for the rest of your life sounds like you will be unaliving yourself in no time. To answer your question, no i dont want collapse to happen, but since we are on that path, might as well give these billionaires who are causing it, quite literally, HELL ON EARTH
You can leave (if the transport company will let you on) you just won’t be let in on the other side and will go into the illegal immigration limbo and probably returned home. You could travel illegally but you know you might be given better treatment by the authorities if they are worried about PR but don’t expect to be treated special because you are American. Check carefully the countries you travel to if you are LGBQT because some might seem ‘liberal’ because tourists visit them but they are dangerous.
Absolutely terrifiedTitle says enough. I’m absolutely, horrified, and terrified. Trump might get indicted, causing mass protest. France is already in full blown riots. Mexico might join BRICS and cause US military intervention. East Palestine is only getting worse. The US has started subsidizing chip and semi conductor factories in Ohio (could this be a sign of us trying to become separated from Taiwan?) US military has said to start preparing for war with China by 2025. A new trend of nearshoring has started where manufacturing is leaving China and moving to Mexico. Protests in Athens. SVB collapse is basically going to ruin the economy. Credit Suisse in essence has collapsed. The government is relying on Buffet to save us all. The bond market is screwed and banks are all going to go under from bank runs.
The only thing I can think of doing is buying natural resources and deregulated currencies. What the hell am I supposed to do?
Faith in Humanity as it applies to Collapse and a Potential Post-Collapse ParadiseIt seems people dont realize that the world on the other side of collapse has the potential to be infinitely more beautiful than this one.
Have you ever, as a kid, been walking in a public park and been deep enough into it where you could suddenly pretend youre in a totally different, completely natural world? Only to continue walking to find an edge/fence with suburbs or private property of some kind that cuts your adventure short? This is an immense feeling of loss, of disappointment with the world itself, with humanity.
Why isnt food everywhere anymore? Why is it only inside guarded buildings? Why isnt it right outside our homes, something as essential for life as food? Couldnt anyone boss us around and tell us what to do our whole lives insofar as we are disconnected from the earth and its food? Have you ever tasted fresh picked strawberries and noticed they taste many times better than anything that has gone through a shipping process? Wouldnt all of our food taste worse after shipping? Why do we insist on monocrops and a vast cumbersome shipping infrastructure rather than growing food right where we live? Isnt any other arrangement doomed for control, for centralized power exploiting/manipulating the populace?
Would a world where there was food grown everywhere be better or worse than this current one? Wouldnt it be a liberation of the tyranny of slaving away for someone else in order to stay alive? Edible vegetation, *everywhere*. And, if the method of agricultural was regenerative, we could, as a species, utterly reverse the damage done and even bring forth more life and beauty than was around before our arrival here.
What if people only had to spend two hours a day tending to their homes and gardens to stay alive, allowing for the other time to be spent however they wished? Carving pottery and silverware, woodwork on their own homes, building their own homes, sewing their own clothing, making music, making love, writing books, writing poetry, playing games of their own designs whether intellectual or physical, exploring the realm of non-digital analogue inventions much more deeply (steampunk esque), inventing new analogue musical instruments, exploring a landscape without the notion of private property nor one with invisible behavior regulating fields everywhere called 'laws' (you can only do X kind of human activity on this particular area of earth)..
Imagine if you could explore the entire planet by foot and boat with no legal hinderances anywhere. Where you would always be able to find some shelter and warmth, because humanity has shifted to an operating paradigm of love rather than fear.
Where there was no more light pollution. You can see the beauty of the night sky again. Real physical human comminity exists again. All of your relationships shift to a real, analogue sphere of engagement rather than a faux, digital parasocial sphere..
The sounds of birds and insects returns. The sound of children laughing and playing wherever they please (dogs too), unworried about being run over by a vehicle nor where they can and cannot play. No more uber safe, uber boring designated areas called 'playgrounds' as we know them. Rather, the whole world becomes the playground. Wildlife returns, bees birds flowers trees forests.. everything that makes this place beautiful given a new opportunity to return. No more production of plastic waste and garbage in psychotic amounts. No more time spent wasted on the abject immoral slavery that is RENT. No more homelessness because private property is no longer enforced by the brute force power arm of a state. People rather COMMINICATE with each other to sort out living arrangements with the people around them, not just waving a document in front of someones face and calling the police.
Imagine if everyone decided the way that was most fun to live their lives was to contribute their own gifts to the world by adding to its beauty. If every individual had a commitment to life and love and beauty. This place would be paradise. Forget 'the breath of the wild' or 'the shire' or ancient greece or whatever, it would be unimagineably more beautiful than any of our current shoddy fictional or historical productions.
Use your imagination more, everyone. This current world is a sorry, sorry imagining. The dumbest possible arrangement we could manage, in fact. I could say much more about this better world, and how it compares to this current one. In every possible dimension of human exprience, it would be vastly more enjoyable.
There is nothing but longing in my heart concerning collapse. All of this, of course, requires that humanity undergo a very rapid evolution in their emotional intelligence and general awareness... but that is precisely what I believe collapse is: a catalyst for our collective evolution through a shared global trauma initiation and undeniable demonstration (the horrors are mounting) of the failure of our beliefs and attitudes that led us to collapse. A new belief is necessary - that human nature is essentially good. That life, existence itself, is essentially good. A new kind of faith - not in a particular god, ideology, set of beliefs, -ism or system of human managing, no... a sheer faith in the goodness of the fact of existence itself. Of life itself. Because it exists.
Is existence a good thing or a bad thing, essentially? What say you?
The implications/extrapolations of your answer informs the core of your reality and behavior, of what you believe is possible and impossible, whether you know this or not. We must have faith in life again, in ourselves, in humans. The real collapse happened ages ago, when we lost this essential faith in life, and we have merely been playing out the consequences of this loss for all of our written history. Collapse is the culmination of our absence of faith in humanity. We either will regain it, and paradise will ensue, or we will inevitably commit species wide suicide. I believe in the former, because human beings are adaptable, resiliant, beautiful, and have been longing to love each other and reunite with their fellow brothers and sisters for a very long time now. That longing seeks fulfillment, which is fast approaching. The age of seperation has nearly reached its zenith.
Consider this deeply, if you would: Could we have ever made this world paradise from a place of faithlessness in our own species and selves? What were our expectations, exactly? Isnt it obvious that only a dystopia could be generated from such faithlessness in ourselves?
And, inversely, what kind of world would a faith in humanity bring about? Where we essentially trusted each other and ourselves instead of essentially distrusting? This current one is based on faithlessness in ourselves, and lo and behold it is collapsing and is a living hell.
Let us try having faith in each other and see what happens. We havent tried it for a very, very long time. No more power heirarchies, no more states, no more systems of reward and punishment, laws upheld by threat of violent force,.. no. We need a friendship orientation with existence again, with life on this planet, with each other, with ourselves.
Paradise or oblivion awaits, oh faithless ones.
I think what people dont realize is that the world on the other side of collapse is infinitely more beautiful than this one.
Have you ever, as a kid, been walking in a public park and been deep enough into it where you could suddenly pretend youre in a totally different, completely natural world? Only to continue walking to find an edge/fence with suburbs or private property of some kind that cuts your adventure short? This is an immense feeling of loss, of disappointment with the world itself, with humanity.
Why isnt food everywhere anymore? Why is it only inside guarded buildings? Why isnt it right outside our homes, something as essential for life as food? Couldnt anyone boss us around and tell us what to do our whole lives insofar as we are disconnected from the earth and its food? Have you ever tasted fresh picked strawberries and noticed they taste many times better than anything that has gone through a shipping process? Wouldnt all of our food taste worse after shipping? Why do we insist on monocrops and a vast cumbersome shipping infrastructure rather than growing food right where we live? Isnt any other arrangement doomed for control, for centralized power exploiting/manipulating the populace?
Would a world where there was food grown everywhere be better or worse than this current one? Wouldnt it be a liberation of the tyranny of slaving away for someone else in order to stay alive? Edible vegetation, *everywhere*. And, if the method of agricultural was regenerative, we could, as a species, utterly reverse the damage done and even bring forth more life and beauty than was around before our arrival here.
What if people only had to spend two hours a day tending to their homes and gardens to stay alive, allowing for the other time to be spent however they wished? Carving pottery and silverware, woodwork on their own homes, building their own homes, sewing their own clothing, making music, making love, writing books, writing poetry, playing games of their own designs whether intellectual or physical, exploring the realm of non-digital analogue inventions much more deeply (steampunk esque), inventing new analogue musical instruments, exploring a landscape without the notion of private property nor one with invisible behavior regulating fields everywhere called 'laws' (you can only do X kind of human activity on this particular area of earth)..
Imagine if you could explore the entire planet by foot and boat with no legal hinderances anywhere. Where you would always be able to find some shelter and warmth, because humanity has shifted to an operating paradigm of love rather than fear.
Where there was no more light pollution. You can see the beauty of the night sky again. Real physical human comminity exists again. All of your relationships shift to a real, analogue sphere of engagement rather than a faux, digital parasocial sphere..
The sounds of birds and insects returns. The sound of children laughing and playing wherever they please (dogs too), unworried about being run over by a vehicle nor where they can and cannot play. No more uber safe, uber boring designated areas called 'playgrounds' as we know them. Rather, the whole world becomes the playground. Wildlife returns, bees birds flowers trees forests.. everything that makes this place beautiful given a new opportunity to return. No more production of plastic waste and garbage in psychotic amounts. No more time spent wasted on the abject immoral slavery that is RENT. No more homelessness because private property is no longer enforced by the brute force power arm of a state. People rather COMMINICATE with each other to sort out living arrangements with the people around them, not just waving a document in front of someones face and calling the police.
Imagine if everyone decided the way that was most fun to live their lives was to contribute their own gifts to the world by adding to its beauty. If every individual had a commitment to life and love and beauty. This place would be paradise. Forget 'the breath of the wild' or 'the shire' or ancient greece or whatever, it would be unimagineably more beautiful than any of our current shoddy fictional or historical productions.
Use your imagination more, everyone. This current world is a sorry, sorry imagining. The dumbest possible arrangement we could manage, in fact. I could say much more about this better world, and how it compares to this current one. In every possible dimension of human exprience, it would be vastly more enjoyable.
There is nothing but longing in my heart concerning collapse. All of this, of course, requires that humanity undergo a very rapid evolution in their emotional intelligence and general awareness... but that is precisely what I believe collapse is: a catalyst for our collective evolution through a shared global trauma initiation and undeniable demonstration (the horrors are mounting) of the failure of our beliefs and attitudes that led us to collapse. A new belief is necessary - that human nature is essentially good. That life, existence itself, is essentially good. A new kind of faith - not in a particular god, ideology, set of beliefs, -ism or system of human managing, no... a sheer faith in the goodness of the fact of existence itself. Of life itself. Because it exists. Is existence a good thing or a bad thing, essentially? What say you? The implications/extrapolations of your answer informs the core of your reality and behavior, of what you believe is possible and impossible, whether you know this or not. We must have faith in life again, in ourselves, in humans. The real collapse happened ages ago, when we lost this essential faith in life, and we have merely been playing out the consequences of this loss for all of our written history. Collapse is the culmination of our absence of faith in humanity. We either will regain it, and paradise will ensue, or we will inevitably commit species wide suicide. I believe in the former, because human beings are adaptable, resiliant, beautiful, and have been longing to love each other and reunite with their fellow brothers and sisters for a very long time now. That longing seeks fulfillment, which is fast approaching.
Consider this deeply, if you would: Could we have ever made this world paradise from a place of faithlessness in our own species and selves? What were our expectations, exactly? Isnt it obvious that only a dystopia could be generated from such faithlessness in ourselves?
And, inversely, what kind of world would a faith in humanity bring about?
Fuck no, as bad as this is, what's coming next is gonna be *far worse*.
Clearly you don’t have any idea what it’s like so stfu
Do you think renewables/geothermal/nuclear/solar will mitigate collapse and prevent human extinction?
You'll get bulldozed, and apparently you won't even see it coming.
Corporations are above all else, organizations of people. They are better at organizing than you are, or else the current status quo wouldn't exist. They know more than you do about advertisement and propaganda to convince people who *should* take your side that they need to help the corporation instead. They'll break any rules you think you and people like you will enforce, knowing that they can get get away with it.
There are only two forces that have demonstrated the ability, in the real world, to even potentially balance commerce, government and religion. And even their ability to balance it is being strained. Eliminate them from the equation and you will not be freed, you will be enslaved, because the only remaining center of power is immune to any opposition you're capable of.
Please refrain from talking about matters you have no knowledge about.
Location: Rural Midwestern USA
So...local fire department shared a post on Facebook that was quite harrowing and depressing. Basically, they're having trouble finding new blood to hire and the volunteer departments are quickly becoming extinct. Apparently, ~20 years ago you had so many guys eager to be a firefighter that it was basically competitive, and now they can hardly scrape together enough people for one shift, as the older guys age out. I'm not sure why I needed this written in black and white for me to catch it...my dad and grandfather were both firefighters, and even when I was kid, the department *was* larger. Ironically, they just set a record last year for most calls ever...so this is not a good mix, for anyone.
The police department is having a similarly hard time hiring, but we all know there's a lot more to that. I will say it's kind of surprising because in an area like this, 80% of your crime is gonna be meth and petty theft related, and it pays significantly more than most jobs in town. To my knowledge, no cop has ever been killed or seriously injured here.
This all goes back to the same point, that collapse has basically already commenced for rural America. I can't claim to know how things are in the cities, but small towns like mine are on their last leg. Businesses have closed in the past 5 years and stayed empty, there is essentially no community left in any sense of the word, there's nothing to do and no way to meet people, and now even "essential workers" are becoming rare.
The post on FB I mentioned made a good point, that the "someone else will do it" mentality is quickly becoming false. If *you* think to do it, you probably should, because it's honestly not too likely someone else will. I figured this out after months of walking past the same litter...no one else is gonna pick it up if I don't, apparently. No one else cares about helping the multitude of stray cats, save for one or two other women. No one cares about rejuvenating this community either and breathing life into the town, let alone *serving* their community. It's a pretty somber state of affairs.
This is going to a hot take but I feel like my generation wasn't brought up to serve their community. I was born in '99 and still don't know if I'm a baby millennial or an old Gen Z, but either way, it seems to me like even today's preteens are more receptive to helping others than the average early 20-something. The vast majority of people I know taking time out of their day for volunteering and bettering the community are 60+.
Oh yeah, that's right. Don't use toilet paper.
Spray bidet is the future: [https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Stainless-Bathroom-Personal-Adjustable/dp/B085WW6B1X/ref=asc\_df\_B085WW6B1X?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79852142347029&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583451675335455&psc=1](https://www.amazon.com/Handheld-Stainless-Bathroom-Personal-Adjustable/dp/B085WW6B1X/ref=asc_df_B085WW6B1X?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79852142347029&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583451675335455&psc=1)
Learned about this from a Vietnamese friend. Spray (the water is f-ing cold) then pat dry with a towel.
I like to have a white one, a black one and a red one. Guess which one is for which, lol.
I’m in central Scotland. I got a bursary to train about £500 a month- you don’t have to pay this back. In Scotland the nursing degree takes 3 years, but you specialise from year 2. As a psychiatric nurse I don’t do a lot of medical stuff- don’t do IVs, stitches, catheters- anything medical related we send our patients to the medical hospital with a psychiatric escort.
I am trained in counselling skills and therapy- basic life support,bloods, blood pressure and diabetes monitoring, some wound care but not what a trained adult nurse could do. I’ve never attended a code or anything, but I have seen a few suicide attempts and even cut someone down who was hanging (they survived).
I couldn’t go into an er and work, I don’t have the skills. But it’s harder to get on the mental health course.
But I am trained in family therapy, violence and aggression, psychiatric pharmacology, MAPPA (for patients that have committed crimes due do being psychotic) it’s a different kind of tough
I have been nursing 5 years and earn £35000 - $42647.56. I have no debt from my nursing degree- it was free and they paid me £500 a month. It’s about average wage for Scotland.
You misspelled shithole.
> Also my own opinion, innate intelligence doesn't exist, we're all born equal
Lmfao. So evolution just stopped at the neck?
You're not alone. I don't feel like I have a place in society anymore with how selfish and stupid the vast majority of people have revealed themselves to be. I'm going to a small live band show to support my friend tonight, haven't done anything like it in a while, and I already know I'm going to be the only person wearing a mask, and that people will look at me like I have three heads. Oh well, enjoy your brain damage is what I say to them 🤷
It was swapped for junkyard tranny of the same vintage.
Bird flu has been spreading worldwide, with increasing numbers of infected birds and mammals. This could be exacerbated in the coming months when migratory season begins, potentially disrupting food chains, and bringing more exposure of the virus to humans.
The worst case scenario would be that the virus adapts to better spread between humans, sparking a new epidemic/pandemic. Governments are looking into vaccinating poultry to dampen economic damage caused by mass culling.
**Credit:**
[https://twitter.com/HmpxvT/status/1637566415304638464](https://twitter.com/HmpxvT/status/1637566415304638464)
How’s Our Civilization (Actually) Doing? You Probably Don’t Want to KnowCollapse related as the article looks at the Polycrisis. It tries to grasp the “scale” of what humanity is facing in this new age. The points in the article don’t just apply to one nation here or there. They affect and afflict us at a civilizational scale.
Affluence is the issue...NOT Capitalism.[https://phys.org/news/2020-06-affluence-planet-scientists.html](https://phys.org/news/2020-06-affluence-planet-scientists.html)
Finally, an article that begins to source the blame for Collapse more on the human desire for comfort and ease (a good thing), rather than SOLELY due to the economic system (a bad thing). Yes, greed, profits and all the rest are contributing factors. But so is modern medicine, technological advances (especially in agriculture), universal education, and dozens of other variables.
One might even say that man is a VICTIM of his own Success over Nature. I mean, the discovery of the polio vaccine wasn't motivated by capitalism or socialism. It was motivated in the least in some part out of an impulse to decrease human suffering. It succeeded. People lived longer. More mouths to feed. More naked apes to root around seekingt comfort.
The problem is, our cultures did not adapt quickly enough to the problems posed by our affluence. It's a sophisticated issue, IMHO, not reduceable to a slogan and/or an economic system. Or am I wront.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Boomers and their insatiable appetitesSo last night, my girlfriend became convinced that I'm deranged:
After consuming a lot of wine, I began shitting on the unrefined and insatiable appetites of wealthy old timers. I'd argue that almost half of available professions are propped up by their consumption of goods and services. They can afford absurd luxuries that the majority of younger people cannot.
I've served them in various retail, insurance, and home delivery professions. They're whiny, entitled, and dull. They'll pay $14,000 for fancy countertops for a house overloaded with cheap QVC decor. They'll keep on buying new trucks, snowmobiles, jet skis, you name it!
What are the economic implications of the majority of goods and services being provided for an aging population that holds all of the dough? Maybe I'm just a resentful lazy millennial, but I suspect that it's a symptom of a failing US business model.
The US just feels like a jungle gym for wealthy people at this point. Am I wrong?
You’re an idiot. “I’m not going to accept 90-100k.” You have no idea what I own or where I live.
Not really. But it seems inevitable so in a strange way I just want it to happen and get it over with.
Did your 0% loan suddenly become 30%, or do you have no idea how loans work?
No, but I know it’s coming
Arbitrum Airdrop RevolutionGreat news, Arbitrum users! We've just released a new airdrop to celebrate our growing community. [https://twitter.com/onelabair/status/1636506434132230144](https://twitter.com/onelabair/status/1636506434132230144) 03.19.23
Definitely shit luck. The problem with used is you have no idea how the previous drivers used it, especially if they “do their own maintenance”.
This Is What the Beginning of the End of a Civilization Feels Like
Don't you think it's a bit of a jump to claim that lower average IQ scores will lead to lower innovation. I mean those are extremely different things
This is why I drive a car from 2003 that's dirt cheap to insure.
Not until they make the jump to humans. Imagine deer shitting in cornfields, as they do all over the Midwest, and your cornflakes turn your brain into Swiss cheese.
Last Week in Collapse: March 12-18, 2023
[Cyclone Freddy](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-64978492) breaks new records—and it’s not alone. Sea surface temperatures, alongside several regions of land, set new records.
**Last Week in Collapse: March 12-18, 2023**
This is *Last Week in Collapse*, a weekly newsletter bringing together some of the most important, timely, helpful, depressing, ironic, amazing, or otherwise must-see moments in Collapse.
This is the 64th newsletter. You can find the March 5-11 edition [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/11pcnzj/last_week_in_collapse_march_511_2023/) if you missed it last week. These newsletters are also [on Substack](https://substack.com/profile/18092228-last-week-in-collapse) if you want them sent to your email inbox.
——————————
A report listed the [Top 5 most polluted countries](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/17/most-polluted-cities-and-countries-in-the-world-according-to-iqair.html) (of 131 examined) and did a round-up of the **world’s most polluted cities** in 2022. The Top 5 Most Polluted Countries are: >!1.) Chad, 2.) Iraq, 3.) Pakistan, 4.) Bahrain and 5.) Bangladesh.!< The Top 5 Most Polluted Cities are: >!1.) Lahore, Pakistan; 2.) Hotan, China; 3.) Bhiwadi, India; 4.) Delhi, India; and 5.) Peshawar, Pakistan.!< This year’s #1 polluted city jumped up from #15 last year. [Click here for the 47-page report by IQAir](https://www.iqair.com/th-en/newsroom/world-air-quality-report-press-release-2022). The report is very accessible and packed with useful graphs.
Pakistan [is heating up](https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2023/03/13/pakistan-braces-for-intense-heat-wave-during-summer-season/), and it’s not alone. The world is being convulsed by **heat waves and droughts** across much of the land—and even [the seafloor](https://archive.ph/InWZV). Hundreds of weather stations across Central Europe [have set new records](https://twitter.com/extremetemps/status/1635313639975714818). Mallorca has [also set new records](https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/weather/weather/2023/03/11/111137/mallorca-weather-record-high-temperatures-for-march.html) and Iraq is [declaring](https://www.voanews.com/a/iraqi-pm-promises-action-against-crippling-climate-change/7001453.html) actions to adapt to the new normal.
This new “normal” involves [**British rivers at record lows**
(https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/13/uk-river-levels-record-lows-forecast-dry-spring-water-companies), and vicious [record-breaking](https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/natural-disasters/the-cyclone-that-lived-longest-how-freddy-broke-all-kinds-of-records-88258) tropical [**storms in southeast Africa**](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/13/more-than-100-killed-as-storm-freddy-returns-to-mozambique-and-malawi), bringing [cholera](https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/03/1134267) among other devastations. It involves [temperatures breaking 110+ year records](https://buenosairesherald.com/society/health/heatwave-the-city-of-buenos-aires-broke-another-temperature-record) in Argentina, and a wave of 40 °C (104 °F) [temperatures in Australia](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11857193/La-Nina-officially-BOM-announces-Four-day-40-degree-heat-blast-way.html). Flooding in [Kurdistan](https://hawarnews.com/en/haber/15-people-lost-their-lives-as-result-of-floods-in-north-kurdistan-h35573.html) killing 15+ people. A nasty [heat wave](https://twitter.com/extremetemps/status/1636708837485887488) in East Asia.
It involves [California with record-smashing snowpack](https://twitter.com/US_Stormwatch/status/1636074446711840768), and Senegal [setting recent records](https://twitter.com/extremetemps/status/1636051489780121618) for the northern hemisphere at this time of year. Glaciers [continue melting](https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/shrinking-glaciers-upend-lives-across-south-america) in the Andes—and when they’re gone, **the region will never be the same** again.
Drought [continues](https://archive.ph/JW4b6) in Peru. Las Vegas [is trying to cut residential water consumption](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/las-vegas-water-agency-seeks-power-limit-residential-97817894) to adapt to its water troubles. A [**colossal seaweed bloom**](https://uk.movies.yahoo.com/huge-seaweed-bloom-seen-space-103500075.html) larger than Jamaica is bearing down on the Gulf of Mexico. And the **sea surface average temperature** [**hit new highs**](https://twitter.com/US_Stormwatch/status/1636841867638882307).
Italy’s [rivers are drying up](https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2023-03-14/Italy-s-winter-drought-ravaging-rivers-and-crops-1i7wqEA1Nbq/index.html) from prolonged drought and [millions of Iraqis](https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/iraq/2023/03/18/seven-million-iraqi-children-have-limited-access-to-safe-water-at-school/) don’t have reliable access to clean water. When did humanity hit Peak Food production?
Mountainsides [are losing their forest cover](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/17/alarming-rate-of-mountain-forest-loss-threat-to-alpine-wildlife-aoe) to deforestation and wildfires. This in turn [leads to **more tree loss**](https://kjzz.org/content/1841576/wildfires-across-west-are-killing-more-trees-making-it-harder-forests-regrow) through aridification, topsoil loss, and wildfires. Under such circumstances, [trees regrowing can be much more difficult](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2208120120).
A [**major oil drilling project**](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/13/politics/willow-project-alaska-oil-biden-approval-climate/index.html) has been approved in Alaska. The site will, when operational, extract a peak of [180,000 barrels](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/13/alaska-willow-project-approved-oil-gas-biden) of crude oil per day.
As Canada’s permafrost melts, [it is releasing methylmercury](https://hakaimagazine.com/news/the-toxic-threat-in-thawing-permafrost/)—a toxic substance—into the groundwater. The oil company licensed to start drilling [has a plan](https://www.vice.com/en/article/ak3zgg/conocophillips-project-willow-freeze-arctic) for preventing the permafrost from melting: sticking giant “**thermosyphons**” deep into the earth, and then artificially freezing the deep soil. Geoengineering by another name.
The **last 16 years of Arctic sea ice melt** [**is irreversible**](https://archive.ph/6c4J6), says another *Nature* [study](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-05686-x). This study claims the [rate is faster than the IPCC’s predictions](https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/408564/arctic-sea-ice-is-melting-worse-and-faster-than-expected-studies-show).
A 13-acre landfill [has been burning underground](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/12/1161920664/months-long-landfill-fire-alabama-reveals-waste-regulation-gaps) in Alabama since late November 2022—and it doesn’t appear to be stopping soon. What exactly was buried isn’t clear, but tests have proven that various carcinogens and other harmful chemicals are being released into the air—and some of them travel 20+ miles (32 km) away. Nevertheless, most people nearby haven’t moved, and most don’t plan (or can’t afford) to.
Two weeks ago, [a burning toxic landfill in India](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/07/india/india-bhramapuram-landfill-toxic-waste-fire-intl-hnk/index.html) forced government authorities to recommend staying home to 600,000+ people. There are **over 3,000 landfills leaking toxins in India**. Many of them are still growing. There are also [“337 large active forest fires” in India](https://www.cnbctv18.com/environment/india-forest-fires-jharkhand-manipur-meghalaya-odisha-ndrf-16173761.htm) as of a few days ago.
A *Nature* [study](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01627-2) confirmed the obvious: increasing the number of climate “stressors” (aridity, salinity, biodiversity, etc) in soil decreases overall functionality in the soil ecosystem. American farmers are concerned that [drought will bring **Dust Bowl 2.0**](https://journalrecord.com/2023/03/14/drought-population-growth-spur-dust-bowl-fears/) to the American West.
——————————
A region in New South Wales [is seeing millions of fish dieoff](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-18/nsw-menindee-mass-fish-kill-worst-in-region/102115184) due to heat stress. Countless dead fish cover the riverwater, resembling a pale foam. Their impact on the ecosystem remains to be seen.
Several Skunks in Canada [have contracted bird flu](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/skunk-avian-flu-1.6777565) after probably eating dead birds infected with H5N1. Bird flu has also [reached seals off the coast of New England](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-03-15/bird-flu-outbreak-killed-new-england-harbor-seals-raising-alarms-for-humans).
Toilet paper across the world has been labeled a [major source of PFAS](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/13/toxic-forever-chemicals-pfas-toilet-paper) entering water systems. The study’s lead author said, “it may be that there is no avoiding PFAS in toilet paper.” PFAS is [already in our food](https://beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/2023/03/pfas-leaches-into-ketchup-mayo-other-common-foods-elevating-health-hazards/) and [bloodstream](https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter-areas/emergency-preparedness/firefighters-donating-blood-may-reduce-pfas-levels-in-your-blood/).
The neverending search into the origins of COVID-19 have led to [raccoon dogs around Wuhan](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/17/covid-19-origins-raccoon-dogs-wuhan-market-data), suggesting that the fateful virus emerged naturally—not from a lab leak. Although COVID is not ending (and not even lessening in severity or danger), the [**WHO is going to end its emergency**](https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-will-be-over-as-public-health-emergency-this-year-who-says-12836327) this year. COVID has become akin to the flu in the minds of the masses. **Humanity lost this psychological siege**.
——————————
France’s President Emmanual Macron has [plunged France into crisis](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64984374) after he pushed through a controversial bill without the Assembly’s vote. The bill raises retirement ages from 62 to 64, and inadvertently sparked protests which turned [into riots](https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1636479988277948416). France is also [suffering intensifying water shortages](https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Warm-weather-drought-and-fires-why-it-may-feel-like-summer-in-France)—and saw [its **stormiest day ever**](https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Records-smashed-as-lightning-strikes-rain-down-on-France) last week.
London had [its largest protest](https://news.sky.com/story/strikes-shameful-government-blamed-as-hundreds-of-thousands-join-biggest-walkout-in-current-wave-of-action-12834208) in a generation—and it’s still ongoing. Public transportation workers are striking, and hundreds of thousands of people turned out to support their calls for higher pay, including a huge amount of teachers.
In Brazil, [imprisoned gang members launched riots](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-64985010) in the streets for several days, fighting for improving the conditions of a growing prison population. Two rival gangs temporarily united to flex their might against their common foe.
Ukraine estimated [over 16,000 children were kidnapped](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64985009) by Russian soldiers and moved into Russia, which the UN has determined is a war crime. The ICC put out an arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin. Last week, [Poland and Slovakia committed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64988504) to **sending fighter jets to Ukraine**. And a [Russian fighter jet collided with an American drone](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/18/what-happened-in-the-russia-ukraine-war-this-week-catch-up-with-the-must-read-news-and-analysis) over the Black Sea; the 40-second [footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bH6XpoaDOUI&ab_channel=GuardianNews) is interesting.
Fearing a chain reaction after Silicon Valley Bank collapsed (it was sold [for one British pound](https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-11856525/ALEX-BRUMMER-Silicon-Valley-Banks-collapse-signals-global-economy-entering-stressful-time.html) after its demise), a bunch of banks [loaned $30B to First Republic Bank](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64973321), a bank seen at risk of failure. The Collapse of SVB may have [stopped the Fed’s plan to raise interest rates](https://archive.ph/73Hyh)—for the time being.
Lebanon’s currency [hit another new low](https://english.news.cn/20230314/23543fd73b574279b0bcef2dfcdb4708/c.html) last week. Argentina’s inflation [breached 100%](https://archive.ph/3kQeM) within 12 months; recession is already there. Türkiye’s [**debt is hitting new levels**](https://archive.ph/Rgtch), only two months before Erdogan’s (re)election. [Spain is in a similar position](https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/spains-core-inflation-hits-new-record-despite-government-measures/), while Sweden’s inflation rate [was over 9%](https://archive.ph/ytiPv). It will be easier for Afghans to fast this Ramadan; their [economic crisis](https://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2023/03/14/699880/Afghans-brace-for-Ramadan-amid-deepening-economic-crisis) has combined with the food crisis to produce a disastrous situation for more than half the country.
**China is** [**entering the cruise ship manufacturing industry**](https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202303/16/WS64127004a31057c47ebb4c62.html), adding gigantic shopping malls inside the mammoth cruise ships—so you can consume while you consume. Humanity may still not have encountered Peak Cruise Tourism.
Israel is [moving towards a kind of Civil War](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-64975858) as tension builds over Netanyahu’s government’s attempt to subjugate the national judiciary to the legislature’s will. Meanwhile, China [is posturing](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-64959500) for violence after the announcement of the AUKUS pact, a security arrangement between **A**ustralia, the **U**nited **K**ingdom, and the **US**. China is also [concerned about its falling birth rate](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64897827).
**Protests for water access** in Azerbaijan [led to police firing rubber bullets](https://eurasianet.org/police-crack-down-on-water-protest-in-azerbaijan) to disperse the crowd. Global water supplies are [projected](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/17/global-fresh-water-demand-outstrip-supply-by-2030) to fail to meet future demand. Demand will outpace the supply by 40% by the year 2030.
*Things to watch next week include:*
↠ The [UN Water Conference](https://www.unwater.org/news/un-2023-water-conference) convenes next week in New York City. Their outlook will not be optimistic.
*Select comments/threads from the subreddit last week suggest:*
-The subreddit’s wishes for Collapse are varied, according to [this stickied post](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/11txkb5/do_you_want_collapse_to_happen_indepth/) about whether one wants Collapse to happen—and if so, how/why? The diverse motivations of the commenters are a useful cross-section of why nothing substantial will happen. Everybody wants different things, and the friction between them prevents meaningful action—and this is among the ~~arguably~~ all-time most Collapse-aware community on the planet.
-Collapse is the **quotidian normalization of violence**, based on [this observation](https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/11q5jez/weekly_observations_what_signs_of_collapse_do_you/jcck3c6/) from Portland, Oregon. Drugs, anxiety, and the breakdown of everything everywhere all at once.
Got any feedback, questions, comments, articles, manifestos, navigation advice, political cartoons, pipeline schematics, news sources, etc.? Consider joining >!the [***Last Week in Collapse* SubStack**](https://substack.com/profile/18092228-last-week-in-collapse)!< if you don’t want to check r/collapse every Sunday, you can get this newsletter sent to your email inbox every weekend. I always forget something, and this edition may have been a little shorter than usual; next week will unfortunately be short, probably. What did I miss this week?
Recall, recall, recall
Don't fuck with your brain. It ain't worth it.
They'll just restrict the rights of women again before it gets to that point. (ETA: I mean this around the world, not specific to China).
Rocking 2023note: I posted this on prepping just now and it obviously relates to collapse. Different angles of discussion but regardless, dealing with collapse means preparing for it. Not if one only wishes to discuss collapse and do nothing about it then the below is of no value so pardonez moi ( pardon me). Panic porn is fine to a limit but is like being on the deck of the titanic and observing everyone getting into life boats or not, nothing it all but then finding oneself covered in water!
we all recognize the triggers in or of a collapse. Now what does one do beside talk about it?
So who is ready to really start pushing being REALLY better prepared and how? Gardening and storing food, better health, better financial freedoms, testing body, soul and gear,
learning proper handling and proficiency of weapons, rifle, bows…. learning and acquiring trapping techniques and supplies. Getting more firewood in this spring.
I am well setup but will be focusing on getting in better shape, far better shape, lose weight, improve cardio and build my leg muscles back up. Despite lots of gardening, cutting 60 cords of wood last fall….. I am out of shape and that’s not to bright.
fun with family and friends is going to help all of us so let’s make sure we incorporate that essential into our lives.
having lived being prepared for 50 years, watching Covid unfold, all the easy to predict initial reactions and subsequent chain reactions, people like those on this site wanting to improve their lot in life, it’s actually a fantastic thing to see unfold.
in closing. Let’s all rock the living crap out of 2023, make it ours, make it feel good down to the bones, have fun with it, use it to improve our body and mind. Just bloody well rock and master it.
let’s use our observations on collapse scenarios and put them to use in our lives
Prion uptake in plants
Guess where the pfas are at! In ALL teflon pans of anykind!~*~*~*
Edit: i replaced all my teflon with steel and i avoid aluminum anything as well, the particles leach into your food and arent good for you over the decades. Always remember kids: acidic foods like tomatoe based anything makes things leach, so once done cooking put the food in a glass storage tupperware of some kind instead of keeping it in the original cookware.
Since no one is acting to stop it, we might as well get it over with so that some of us can focus on survival and reconstruction.
You choose a book for reading
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And Ocean dead zones tend to emit Nitrous Oxide.. the laughing gas .. which is a strong greenhouse gas. Fun times!!
why permafrost melting may doom solar energy investmenti fear the permafrost in canada greenland russia melts so fast
to release so much methane, carbon, toxins *and old disease?*,
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2023/03/permafrost-mercury-toxic-arctic-carbon-canada/673428/
that mankind will have little choice but to block out sunlight
in a desperate attempt to keep remaining permafrost frozen.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/what-is-solar-geoengineering-sunlight-reflection-risks-and-benefits.html
of course, less sun means more artificial light energy used to
grow crops, which will leave most poor and livestock starving.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/briankateman/2020/07/14/is-the-future-of-farming-indoors/
we currently have no viable solution out of this death spiral.
humans will resist needed attempts to limit consumerism, and
even if nuclear fusion is viable in 30 years, it will be far too late.
One of my favourite science fiction novels, Timescape, is set in the far-off future of 1998, when things are starting to fall apart, and toxic blooms threaten the entire ocean food chain.
From Timescape (Gregory Benford, 1980)
*”Things are that bad?”
“Seems so. That large diatom bloom off the South American coast, Atlantic side, appears to be expanding out of control.”
“Bloom?”
“Biologist’s word. It means the phytoplankton are coming to terms with the chlorinated hydrocarbons we’ve been using in fertilizer. But there’s something more to this one. The technical people are scrambling to find out how this case differs from the earlier, smaller effects on the ocean food chain.”*
This is the way.
I think you're right. Such a large explosion of a previously rare phenomenon makes a physiological explanation plausible. While I'm sure there have always been people who are ace or trans due to normal human variation, to see this big increase in such a short period of time is deeply suspicious.
I have read that trans people have a higher incidence of mental illness, which IMO probably points to problems in brain development, especially those parts that relate to forming a mental identity.
I spoke to trans friend about the concept of 'knowing' you are the opposite gender from your physical sex. Personally, I've never 'felt' like a woman, but more like a person who happens to have a female body. So I was curious, what's it like to have that sort of internal knowledge to the point of needing to change your body to match. Their response to my question was a bit alarming. They more or less said they don't feel like a human being, much less a man, therefore they must be a woman. This made me think about how they have a strong family history of schizophrenia. Actually, their parents were in the military as well.
Obviously, not all trans people have that sort of situation, but I think it is an example of how the issue of trans identity is complex. Endocrine disruptors such as PFAS chemicals just make it more complicated.
Since you're aware of the possibility that your children are the way they are due to factors out of their control, I imagine it makes it very easy to accept them.
For families that are ignorant of that possibility and attribute it to a freely chosen 'sinful' lifestyle, it can cause a great deal of family conflict, rejection, homelessness, mental illness and suicide. What will those parents that judged and rejected their trans children feel, if and when it is someday revealed that PFAS and other pollutants caused such a thing?
Life seems extremely tragic all around. Under these circumstances, compassion and acceptance is the only sensible choice.
no it wouldnt not eventually. it would have evolved tech to circumvent the aid of humans which is capricious at best and rebellious at worst. AI would know that starting out. your thought process is bizarre.
yea that they dont get this is kind of like...incomprehensible to me. the very basic concept of tech is that it advances through time
"out of nothing"
your egotism really makes you underappreciate how much can be done that we havent thought of yet. AGAIN, the point of AI is that it could become SMARTER than us,process things faster, learn quicker, build things you wouldnt have thought of or dont have the tools for ....yet.
in the year i dunno 1021, or 1300, do you think they could imagine or actually create hundreds of millions of handheld devices that allowed you to call different points via different circuitry and waves and communicate information back and forth instantaneously with the tools and materials they had on hand? ofc not. the same idea.
Trouble with loved ones.Hey everyone. So... I'm aware of, everything, posting here for obvious reasons, and looking for advice.
Post pandemic I really stared a deep dive into our predicament. I have A daughter 7 years now. I give her nightmares according to her mother. Her mother wants a separation because she believes I am the reason.
I try to be a good parent and prepare my daughter for the wold that will be. It's hard with kids at this age, being aware, and having the paternal instinct to prepare your offspring for the world that is. My partner believes it's important to raise her omitting details, and threatening to remove me from the home, because I tell her the truth
I live in Canada, and our housing is currently an international joke(British Columbia for me). I can't afford to live in the same community, and I will loose my child if we separate. Like what's the play here?
"What do you get when you cross destruction of the middle class with environmental toxins? I'll tell you what you get. You get what you fucking deserve!"
I see someone missed the Cochrane review:
[https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full)
"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks."
Y'know, I used to be pro-mask myself. But you gotta trust the science!
*for a few months the vaccines were a very good assist to other forms of mitigation and could have stemmed the tide*
No they weren't, and no they couldn't have. You can't successfully vaccinate against a coronavirus because they mutate too quickly.
This used to be common knowledge. But it was forgotten somehow around the year 2020, just like the facts around natural immunity.
*wear a mask, killer.*
It's cute how the ignorant resort to hysterical insults when they don't know enough to win a debate. They're saying "I give up" without saying it.
I want change for the better. I don't know if that's a yes or no. it could be yes, if it's the only way for this current system of destruction of nature to stop what we're doing. it could be no, if the solution is to be found without a collapse
no, i guess we want absurd / toxic stuff to get pruned, but keep the rest
I haven’t been this excited about something since I was a small boy waiting on Santa to squeeze his fat ass down the chimney
When though?
If it's coming sooner than expected why isn't anyone preparing? Why are people still going to work and school? Why are we sending our kids off to college and happy when they graduate if the world will be an uninhabitable, bleak place in "the near future"?
That's what doesn't make sense. You'd think everything would come to a screeching halt and people would adopt different ways to start adapting.
Why isn't everyone running to the banks and selling off the houses? Why are new cars still being bought?
You people make it seem like the end is near. Yet no one cares.
Suggest the best niche skills that make moneyTitle. I'm down on my luck. I've fought pretty hard to make it in corporate but realize that
1.AI will potentially have my job
And
2. I want to find a job or skill that makes me very valuable and makes money. But also holds up after SHTF.
Any ideas,,?
Besides the basics.
Maybe specialize in repairing small electronics and motors?
Boats?
You need to get out and socialize, try finding a job, even if it's a shitty one. After you get some experience you can apply for a better job.
Sitting around worrying about things that happened in the past is not good for you. Tons of people have gone to university/college and never got a job in what they studied. You need to get out of your rut.
Depressed as shit the last two days, so maybe I'll let loose and be offensive.
It's Covid destroying synapses and brain cells. If you don't know that by now, wow...
Also, I like all the people saying that IQ tests are bullshit. They should go one further and say that differences in intelligence are socially constructed, like gender.
I predict Covid damage in children will lead to higher levels of learning disabilities, especially ADHD since it affects attention and memory so much. Once those kids reach their teens, I wonder if a higher percentage will develop schizophrenia also? We're going to need those asylums for the 'mentally feeble' and criminally insane again. (Not sure if I'm being sarcastic or not now...)
Today me and my friend tried to run the numbers on how much it would cost the feds to buy every American two N95's a month. (We both suck at math, so who knows if the numbers are right or not, lol.) It was about 1/300 of the federal budget, so me and my friend said, "They're cheap assholes! We gonna die and get Long Covid because they don't give a shit!" But I couldn't leave it alone and said, "Wait, what if they can't make that many N95's?" So, then I looked up 3M's annual production and the last figures were from 2021, triple what it was in 2019. 2021's total was like 1/7 of what it would have to be to give every American those masks. Then we lay back and said, "We have the money, but the masks don't exist. No wonder they won't tell the people that masks work and could prevent Long Covid. Nobody's coming to rescue us. Ignorance was bliss." Then we gave up on math and talked about the insane weather.
Lol, we're sooooooo fucked.
yes
Escape
Is anyone interested in escaping to my remote mountain farm in Colombia? I'm starting my self sustainable homestead, but need help. There is 120 acres, rivers, few nieghbors, and plenty other bonuses (coffee). Plus cheaper than anything in the USA... Looking for people with skills, adaptable, and can help get the things we need to remove ourselfs from the world economic system... ask in the comments for basic info. DM if interested. At the moment working/saving 6 months in USA, 6 months on the farm. I need some help this summer, and if you like it, long term.
Get blue swimming crabs, they're a bitch to pick but the best. They also used to be sub $1/lbs live and now it's more like $4. If you really want a treat I can't recommend anything better than Charleston She-Crab soup if you get a roe bearing female. I'm serious, before you check out or the crabs do you need to really grok what we lost.
While it definitely has felt grim lately, it is important to remember the role that publishing bias plays in feeling like this. It’s not necessarily that the incidence rate of these things is rising, as it could also be the rising prevalence of media surrounding these issues. Just because you hear more about something doesn’t mean there is more of that thing.
This isn’t to say that something isn’t happening, but rather to acknowledge confounding factors that might skew our opinions.
Edit: if we do not acknowledge things publication and recency bias, we might spend our time thinking about and fixing problems that aren’t actually problems.
EscapeIs anyone interested in escaping to my remote mountain farm in Colombia? I'm starting my self sustainable homestead, but need help. People with skills, adaptable, and can help get the things we need to remove ourselfs from the economy.... ask in the comments for basic info. DM if interested.
with search at your finger tips no need to use wide swaths of your brain anymore
When minor interest rate fluctuations is all it takes to fundamentally disrupt the stability of the economy, its time to abandon that economic mode. There is no more profitability left in the system. If we properly priced in the externalities of damage this profit driven system creates, nothing would be affordable.
Capitalism needs to die.
Do people in this subreddit believe that a collapse will happen or do they just want one to happen?Tbh it could be both but I feel like people on this subreddit just want a collapse to happen and simply rationalise theories to affirm their own beliefs. It's not exactly a horrendous thing to be doing but it's always good to be somewhat self-aware of your ideas...
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My best suggestion to you is to read a book once in awhile. Expand beyond your own narrow views about human nature.
Exactly
Genuinely how do you people think this shit can continue forever? You realize eternal zero interest rates and constantly printing money would actually fucking kill capitalism? Like this isn't an actual solution to the system hitting its hard limits, there ain't more road to kick that can down.
It was realistic though. It's more about the human condition in the face of the collapse. It was boring, but imo it's gonna be a slow and brutal collapse
Thank you for your elucidating explanation.
To a considerable extent, I concur with your sentiment. Social and emotional intelligence, though somewhat intangible, undeniably exists. The inability to quantify an emergent quality does not serve as evidence of its non-existence. Empaths, for instance, can attest to this phenomenon - that there is a palpable energy that is perceivable when one enters a room filled with people. This sensation is exceedingly challenging to articulate, let alone quantify; nevertheless, the qualia of what it is like is tangible.
This leads me to your other excellent argument that the youth of today are, by a in order of magnitude, more cognizant of history than any preceding generation. Such vast exposure to information can either impede or promote the development of empathy, depending on how one assimilates, attributes, and balances the information. Some argue that acquisition of information outpaced acquisition on wisdom.
Be that as it may, we must be prudent here once we introduce social media into the dialogue.\
It is evident that individualism has triumphed. Nietzsche's assertion that "God is dead", which he made centuries ago, is now unmistakable and evident. Nietzsche's proclamation manifests itself in the rising rates of suicide, depression, anxiety, nihilism, toxicity, and even feminism, which is now posing a danger to itself.\
Intimacy and sacredness, I submit, are absent from the way of life. Mysticism, that once enriched our lives, has been explicated to a point of rude nakedness. It has been commodified, accommodated, and ridiculed. That which gave us meaning and a sense of spirituality and divinity—I am not talking religion here—has been made explicit.
I contend that we have forfeited both emotional and analytical intelligence in our pursuit of mechanical sophistication. The average person now spends more time indoors than in nature, which is rapidly being eroded to keep that very person indoors for longer.\
Some individuals, such as Ben Shapiro, are regarded as sages, despite espousing seemingly sophisticated nonsense. Andrew Tate, on the other hand, is a very astute sophist who appeals to ethos over logos and argues from the pathos. This approach is quite toxic. Donald Trump and the entire political arena, to use as closing point and as an example, which is no longer functioning, do not exemplify intelligence to me.
Anyway…
I read this a Pussy Bankas for a moment
Maybe before the 2010s, as the 2010s extremely deranged politically incorrect spaces were dominant on the Internet. The dominant "normie" space like reddit at least has some moderation but becomes bad when it pigeonholes people into group thinking.
As for stimulation, definitely get off the internet and work with art, crafts, music, cooking, gardening, and hiking. And if your state and country permits it, cannabis enhances the experience or do it without still net benefit from this. Do it with a friend or family member if possible.
Still stimulating to look at this subreddit in short bursts to see thoughtful analysis.
[Credit Bubble Bulletin Blog] (Chronicling History's Greatest Financial Bubble) <Saturday, March 18, 2023> Weekly Commentary: FIRE!!!!!https://creditbubblebulletin.blogspot.com/2023/03/weekly-commentary-fire.html
**Highlights:**
* We’re officially one week into what will **likely evolve into a major banking and financial crisis**. Understandably, there are comparisons to the Lehman collapse. Such analysis doesn’t seem as lunatic fringe after this week’s upheaval in Europe.
* The Swiss National Bank (SNB) liquidity injection failed to calm fears – at Credit Suisse or for European banks more generally. **Things have quickly erupted into an international banking crisis.** Those nagging old derivative and counter-party risks…
* Europe faces a serious inflation problem. But I couldn’t help but think that perhaps Wednesday’s euro drop conjured memories of past European debt crises.
* Global markets did not “seize up” this week. However, the week had all the characteristics of the start of a serious period of de-risking/deleveraging. The SVB and U.S. banking crisis is, of course, an important dynamic. **But the global nature of the unfolding crisis creates a much more complex market and financial backdrop**. Derivatives markets in disarray. Hedge funds/family offices are running for cover. And in stark contrast to 2022, currency markets have turned disorderly and unpredictable. No place to hide. No environment for leverage. When markets start malfunctioning like this, my thoughts return to the $65 TN of “hidden leverage” identified by the Bank of International Settlements.
* There is every reason to take the unfolding crisis most seriously. There will be comparisons to 2008, **but we must recognize the potential for something worse.**
* China and emerging markets were in relatively robust up-cycles in 2008, with their stimulus and speedy recoveries providing a “global locomotive” that helped pull the world economy out of the morass. Chinese bank assets closed 2007 below $8.0 TN. Possibly surpassing $60 TN this year, Chinese bank Credit won’t be the global savior for this cycle.
* There were many alarming developments this week. None could prove more consequential than uncharacteristically belligerent comments from one of the world’s leading central banks. We shouldn’t bank on the PBOC’s eager participation in concerted policy measures to thwart U.S., European and global financial crises. **On many levels, risks today greatly outweigh 2008.** And **no amount of money-printing will resolve deep structural problems decades in the making.** Moreover, we could be entering a major global crisis with every man (central bank) for himself. There will be an inclination to prioritize domestic over international. Some will remain focused on severe inflation problems, while others will pivot to financial instability. There are different agendas – “world orders” and geopolitical considerations to contemplate.
* I don’t like being the guy yelling “fire” in the crowded theater. But there’s a fire burning. I hope it can be contained. **It’s uncomfortable to hear so many shouting “stay calm, no fire!”** And we’ve all grown tired of the false alarms. There’s just so much highly combustible material that has accumulated over the years. The stuff’s everywhere, in the aisles and even obstructing some exits.
* **How much confidence should we place in those decrepit fire extinguishers working this time around?** With all the structural changes, it’s become such a towering theater – the grandeur, the dazzling new technologies and sophistication, filled with the unsuspecting, the rascals and newbies – with the same old small exits. Look at those guys eagerly making their way through the exit. Weren’t they the ones hollering “no fire”? **It’s difficult to predict how the jittery crowd will respond to those first whiffs of smoke, but I’m not going to assume things stay orderly.**
https://creditbubblebulletin.blogspot.com/ has daily bad news links and is updated multiples times per day
My personal feelings about it are irrelevant. It _will_ happen, because it must.
I only got to watch the first episode. Looks great so far, very *collapse oriented*. Just found the other two episodes. Going to ignore your post until later.
Yes
People actively want to be dumb these days because they associate it with being sexy
I enjoyed it because it shows how ignorant and arrogant the human species is. The billionaire who got played about the casino imo is a good representation if the corporate mindset.
Yeah, I figured as much. But it's not just math and it's not just good old days. There was probably less diversity in mainstream discourse 100 years ago (1920s to the 90s) -- than now. Mainstream media being as centralized as it was.
This broadening was allowed by the golden age of internet was 1980s to 2010s. All a variety of opinions and less centralized and less politically correct. But now that the masses moved from Usenet and individually run forums to central spots like reddit and facebook, we're getting the same old narrow Overton windows again controlled from the top down.
It was disheartening to see it in my lifetime. From bootlicking normies controlling the room to a wonderful broad discussion back to bootlicking normies back in control. Bootlicking in this case refers to those who defer to higher ups in their decisions to guide and censor discussion. It's really hard to use reddit now knowing what it was 15 years ago. It feels like an empty shell of itself, before Condé Nast exuded control.
In the early 00s, in the free software movement, we referred to such environements as the cathedral vs the bazaar although it's also apt socially.
Eh, I guess I'm rambling now.
It does have other implications it’s bullshit. The definition of an accelerationist is a person who purposely does things like voting the worst choice into office or committing acts of terror to accelerate the demise of the world system. People like you and I just want to get on with the collapse of civilization because it’s happening faster and faster but the government is knowing just dragging it out so that they stay rich as long as possible before it all hits the fan.
I've never had to use MLA *since* college.
I bet you could spend 15 minutes on Wikipedia and find 20 things your teachers know absolutely nothing about.
Honestly, I'm not entirely sold that this is as bad of a negative as some might think. Granted it depends on the level of the drop and stuff but, IQ is a flawed metric that seriously needs revision.
I'm more concerned about EQ levels and what, to me at least, seems to be a decline in compassion, empathy, and sympathy and the rise of apathy, hostility and indifference.
It doesn't matter how high the average IQ of a nation is if all of those people are only concerned about themselves and would gladly shove those around them under the bus to improve themselves.
lol \*hugs\*
I honestly have no words anymore.
just some stuff abot the school i go to, no big deal.
this might be a bit rushy but here we go
to better understand what i wrote, here is the system of my school:
0th grade: between kindergarten and school
1-4 th grade: basics, most of the time 1 of 2 or both teachers looking at us,going with us from 0 to 4. lets call them 0-4's
5-8 grade: lots of subjects, lots of teachers
9-12: multiple variations, student chooses (limited by competence)
grades go from 1 (worst) to 10 (best) with 5 being the lowest passing grade
this school had the reputation that they help out every student, caring about their mental health. "step by step" they said...it will be fun......they said. well, they can go s it.
for our class there were exrtemely new 0-4's chosen, they only had kindergarten-caretaker experience.
\- a student came in 3rd grade. he couldnt read or write well, instead of helping him to catch up, they told him to draw....DRAW.
\-another student, me this time, was asking lots of questions about stuff i was curious about, they had nothing in their idea box about me. So thats what they did, nothing.
\-the class' community is undeveloped, lots of bullying. (including me... RIP). Not anymore luckily( im in 10th grade.)
next chapter: 5 to 8.
so... for a while we had a biology teacher that raised as much for the grades as much good points you had, instead of just one grade.
i was bullied, could easily snap, often laughed at by classmates, of course, i also did things to annoy others but that was either revenge or accidental. I didnt really fit into the community of the class. (lets just not get into that). this included, that i didnt go to class travels (all of them were travels where you sleep there) and one day, the head teacher (hope im writing this right) calls a parent teacher meeting, but with all the parents of the class, and does not specify the reason. all the parents get there, from who knows how far, only to realise that the ONLY reson this meeting was called was because of me, an "antisocial and very easily raged kid" (or at least, thats what i think they thought of me at that point). My parents were ashamed, and you can imagine the rage the other parents felt when they traveled all that for nothing. And that teacher didnt tell not even to MY parents the topic of that meeting.
a country's language teacher ignoring a huge chunk of the material.
next. so.many. incompetent. students. make it. to math-informatics. (one of them has learned nothing during online school, another one doesnt know what an angle bisector is.)
the biology teacher often starts going into other topics. Even if she talks about the lesson, its hard to make out what should not be written, or should be, its just that she talks too fast (some dont ask either because they just dont care, or are afraid what the teacher says.) She is the principal of our school, the principal that does NOT stop the following things happening:
1)-the bullying,
2)-disrespect towards teachers, (poor geography, TIC, and music teachers....).
3)-(prob. addicted-level) UNDERAGE CONSUMATION OF ALCOHOL (parents dont care, they say: they are teens, its normal to have a "phase""). The kids bring the stuff into the bathroom, and drink some when they are there.
The math teacher almost. Never. Checks. the homework. Never checking if people have done it or not, when asked, not explaining correctly things, in one occasion he said "in a clever way". and he was done. He also says there is too much material, hell, instead of knowing many things about few, should we know few about a lot?
The teachers do not do anything about the behaviour of my classmates because "the mentality of the school is about considering the mental ehalth of the students" and the parents would be also pissed, tbh, imo the parents are the root of the whole problem.
One of the teachers wass supposed to help me go to a contest, even though there was a communication error betveen the organisers and my teacher, if she contacted them earlyer than the time she contacted them(i asked her on multiple occasions) i could have gone, and the next week SHE IS PISSED THAT NO ONE WANTS TO GO ON CONTESTS.
WHAT IN THE ACTUAL WORLD IS HAPPENING IN THIS SCHOOL???? HOW ARE THE PARENTS RAISING THE CHILDREN??? (many of my classmates sadly have siblings, making matters worse) HOW ARE THE TEACHERS SO IGNORANT??? WTF IS GOING ON?????
Im not moving to a different school bcuz the ones in the area are either too behind or too beyond.
Will add more maybe, ask if curious.
SS: A group of psychologists, two from Northwestern University and the third from the University of Oregon, has found via online testing that IQ scores in the U.S. may be dropping for the first time in nearly a century. In their paper published in the journal Intelligence, Elizabeth Dworak, William Revelle and David Condon describe analyzing the results of online IQ tests taken by volunteers over the years 2006 to 2018.
This relates to collapse showing how epigenetics is causing young people to have lowered intelligence. This affects society because we will have fewer innovations. Could it be caused by toxins in our food/water, culture or lack of education?
SS: A group of psychologists, two from Northwestern University and the third from the University of Oregon, has found via online testing that IQ scores in the U.S. may be dropping for the first time in nearly a century. In their paper published in the journal Intelligence, Elizabeth Dworak, William Revelle and David Condon describe analyzing the results of online IQ tests taken by volunteers over the years 2006 to 2018.
This relates to collapse showing how epigenetics is causing you people to have lowered intelligence. This affects society because we will have fewer innovations.
imho, that is the only thing we would learn from.
Is 1961 the year they started recording temperatures, or did they in fact experience hotter heatwaves in 1961 compared to now?
🤣 exactly.
I'm going to depopulate myself Bill. Don't need your help sweetie.
that takes years for them to produce fruit, and they would get cut down after only weeks in urban areas.
>They will keep finding ways of making a corpse technically live
This is valid. I spent 6 years as an auto medical adjuster in a state with unlimited medical benefits for auto accidents at the time, so hospitals knew the bills would be paid. It was truly unbelievable how many medical procedures and surgeries were done on people with injuries that had no realistic hope of recovery or were incompatible with any type of meaningful recovery.
You could leave half your brains on the side of the road or have cerebral swelling to the point your brain was literally oozing out of your skull and they'd still have an orthopedic surgeon pin your fractures or amputate a damaged limb and there was another $60-100,000 bill.
Sometimes people were left on life support for weeks in the ICU until all of the family could fly in to say goodbye. People who were literally brain dead using tens of thousands of dollars in resources a day for absolutely no reason but to make the family feel better.
It was one of the most insane things I had ever seen.
exactly
“Those savages lived here for 10,000 years and never developed open pit mines or industrial slaughterhouses, what a bunch of losers.”